Episode Three - The Christmas Paradox (Part Two)

Summary

In this second part of the Christmas episode of the Living Your Learning podcast, Craig McHugh and Lisa Butler delve further into the pressures and expectations that come with the holiday season. They discuss the importance of understanding personal boundaries, the need for self-awareness, and the significance of creating meaningful connections during festive gatherings. The conversation also touches on balancing work and personal life, cultivating a supportive business culture, and strategies for thriving in the new year. Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize leading with kindness and understanding, encouraging listeners to reflect on their needs and priorities as they navigate the complexities of the holiday season.



Takeaways

• Reflection is crucial for understanding our mental load.
• Letting go of expectations can lead to less disappointment.
• Understanding each other and boundaries helps in managing relationships.
• Self-awareness allows us to navigate social situations better.
• Creating meaningful connections is more fulfilling than small talk.
• Leaders should prioritize the well-being of their teams during holidays.
• It's important to articulate responsibilities within family dynamics.
• Kindness should be at the forefront of our interactions.
• Planning and organization can alleviate holiday stress.
• Taking time to recharge is essential for thriving in the new year.

Sound Bites

"Lead with kindness."
"What is important now?"
"Let's enjoy being alive."

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:40 Crossing Christmas Boundaries
• 3:36 The Importance of Understanding Each Other
• 6:44 Understanding The Boundaries
• 7:44 The Dynamics of Introversion and Extroversion
• 9:12 Removing Judgement
• 10:47 Recognising Preferred Behaviour and Connection
• 15:51 Knowing What Lights Us Up
• 20:49 Inadvertently Crossing Someone's Line
• 23:34 Remember To Be Kind
• 25:30 How Can Leaders Help Take The Pressure Off?
• 27:45 Navigating The Festive Challenges
• 30:42 What Can We Do To Thrive?
• 36:23 Christmas Episode Reflections
• 44:37 Craig's Takeaways
• 48:58 Lisa's Takeaways
• 50:38 Lisa's Big Win!
• 51:46 The Final LYL Christmas Podcast Ponder Point
• 55:00 Merry Christmas!

Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to the Living Your Learning podcast where we explore all things leadership, learning and everything in between. It's the place for top chats, awesome insights and hopefully a splash of inspiration that lights the way to awesome leaders, amazing teams and maybe even a better you. And this part two of our special Christmas edition of the podcast, myself and Lisa Butler. are continuing our discussions on all things Christmas. We really hope you enjoy it. And welcome back everyone to part two of this special, I think we're calling it a Christmas episode, are we Lisa? Yeah, I feel like Debbie McGee. So yeah, in part one, two-parter this episode. In part one, we talked about the time of year, the trials, tribulations, the pressures, and all kinds of really, really awesome stuff that we're now gonna talk about a little bit further, because this definitely warrants a good bit of time and talking about, I feel, Lisa, because we've still got a little bit more to cover. We talked about mental load in part one. We talked about, you know, some things around how to deal with some of those pressures. So reflection, being a bit more mindful. We talked about expectations and how we can deal with those. And then we were also talking about boundaries and bringing that in. So where do you want to take us next? Okay, so I want to talk about, we've talked a little bit about how we feel when a boundary has been crossed, but I want to talk about how we might inadvertently cross someone else's boundary. And it might not be a boundary they've articulated to us, but we can have that awareness of, before I open my mouth, is my intention to do one of the following things, and if so, I might get... a reaction from that. Yeah, I love that totally. And again, I'm just gonna relate it to, because I find it easier to process and talk about if I relate it to a personal experience. You know, when I get, and I get it all year long, not just for Christmas time, but at Christmas time, when I get those anxieties, that pressure, those social anxieties, and those other pressures that come with this time of the year. I know that other people aren't doing that to me on purpose. And whilst I might be creating those victim villain narratives and stories in my head to justify how I'm feeling and how I'm behaving, I know they're not doing it on purpose. They're doing it out of goodwill. I was about to go into goodwill to all mankind, one and all Christmas type jargon there, but you know what I mean? It's good intent, it's goodwill. It's Christmas time, it's that kind of thing. So I know it's not coming from a bad place and I know it's not on purpose, but when you feel that pressure and that expectation and you feel like you're being a party pooper or a Scrooge or a bah humbug, then you're gonna then create those narratives, those victim villain narratives. And... I wonder if people understood each other a little bit more, then we can approach these things with, as you said earlier in part one, with that kindness, with that understanding, and then maybe these expectations wouldn't feel so big and so hard. So the first thing is please get yourself and your teams profiled so you know each other. Please do that. It is not an additional expense. It is an act of service to your teams to understand yourself and each other. And the profiling is key to this. So here we're talking behaviour profiling, disc or colour profiling, yeah. I agree and I'm not sure if I said this last time we talked about it on our first episode together. I actually bought Pam one of those. It was on her birthday, I didn't buy it for her birthday but she said, you bought me one of those reports for my birthday. And we have a bit of a laugh about it but honestly, it's super interesting and often she'll go, you're being a bit blue. And I'll go, yeah, you're being a bit weird yellow. But you know, we laugh about it, but it helps us understand each other and it helps us understand those boundaries. Now, does it mean that we can't shift those boundaries for ourselves? Does it mean that I have to be blue and that I can't be a little bit more yellow? No, I know I can be more yellow when I need to. So sometimes maybe I need to shift my own boundaries a little bit, but. Having people understand where your boundaries are so that they can help you adjust to them or adapt to them or make them a bit easier is absolutely critical. yeah, teams, but they're really great for family and friends. So if you want a Christmas present. was to begin with, I thought, it's like, here's a new iron, here's a new Hoover, and here is your personality profile, darling. However, sometimes I think that could be, would explain why one person is more into, well, did we really need to buy that? We don't really have the money for it. And the other person's like, my God, this is amazing. Look at this thing I bought. It's so glorious me. you know, and my other half is just like, Lisa, did you even look at the joint account today? And I'm like, no, I just saw this thing. It was amazing. And he's like, you need to look at the detail. I'm like, okay. But if we understood that, we would realize the other person isn't just being a knob. They're just, you know, that's just their natural propensity for detail or for socializing or whatever it is. totally, totally that. I mean it's a genius suggestion. So yeah, hit us up everyone if you want a really cool Christmas present for someone. Okay, fabulous, right. I forgot. Yeah, right. What was the other bit I was going to say? What was the question? So yeah, I was getting at, I think we were getting at understanding people's boundaries and how I've, do you know what? And when I was talking about boundaries, I was actually visualizing those colour, the four colours and almost the boundary that sits around those colours. Now, yes, we have those boundaries and understanding where people sit within those is really important, but now I'm thinking about it a bit more. Do you know what? It's really cool and absolutely okay to shift your boundary a little bit because whilst I might, at a social occasion for example, be really socially awkward and anxious, sometimes I just need to be a bit more yellow. And actually when I move into that, it's really good for me. And actually I enjoy it after a little while. But it'd be really cool if people understood that I actually started off in the blue and to go there is really hard. And if it's all a bit too much, I'm going to withdraw and I'm going to feel anxious and I'm not going to want to do it. So people having that understanding and someone like you helping me move in and shift that boundary a little bit and then understanding it and making it feel safe for me. my God, that's how, how awesome would that be if people could do that? massively so. And then we can perhaps do away with, well, Craig never gets on the dance floor first. Lisa never lets me do the gift wrapping. No, because actually Craig's natural propensity is to do the gift wrapping and Lisa's propensity is to get on the dance floor. Actually, can we have a conversation about how we can support each other in that thing or it's just let's remove the judgment, let's remove the assumptions around someone's behaviour and just ask ourselves why, why, why, why, why? Like why might they be behaving? And notice but actually through the year Lisa is always the one that brings in cakes for people's birthdays and Craig doesn't. Does that mean that Craig's not very social? Does it mean that he doesn't care about that person's birthday? No, not at all. It means that that's not his natural thing to bring cake. Exactly, yeah, it's exactly that. And you've said a really big word there for me, judgment. And I think that goes for the judgment we place on others, but also the judgment we place on ourselves. It's okay for you to get up on the dance floor first. It may not be my thing, and I might think, my God, you're weird. too much for me, no. But that's fine. I shouldn't judge you for that. But likewise, you shouldn't judge me for wanting to stand at the bar on my own. with a pint in my hand and not talk to anyone or pretend to be on my phone. But also, because I want to do that, I shouldn't judge myself for it. Yes, I need to learn and I need to understand that, you know what, Craig, sometimes you just really need to dial up your yellow. And actually when you do it, it's okay. And the more you do it, the kind of the better you get at it and the easier it gets. but for not to give myself a hard time for it. Because I think during these times, whatever the pressure is, whether it's a social thing, an overwhelmed thing, a kind of too much go to do or financial thing or whatever that pressure is, we're all gonna deal with them in slightly different ways based on how we tick and our preferred ways of operating and behaving. And I think sometimes, and I can only speak from my own experience, is that you give yourself a hard time for it. But it's just who I am, people. Yeah, can I work on it? I will, and I do. But, yeah. Yeah. Every year we have a Halloween party and we've got like little mini wood, it's like seven trees in a circle and it's like perfect for the dingley dell and the witch's coven. so we have a party and it's so much fun, like it's fancy dress, everyone gets involved, it's brilliant. I love it. But what's really interesting, my daughter observed that I organise this, I decorate the garden, it looks really cool. I go to huge efforts with it and then on the day of the party, I welcome everybody and then spend the whole time in the kitchen and I don't really spend any time in the party. And she's like, but why do you do that? And it's because it's 40 or 50 people there. And I'm not very good at small talk. like to go seven layers down really quickly. I just don't. I struggle with small talk and there's so many people and I want to go and see them all, but the only way I can do that is by doing small talk. But I also really like bringing people together. I like to see people having fun. And so for me, it's like I created the environment. You all go and have a lovely time and I'm just going to sit here with my cup of tea and I'm very happy. But I've also realised... I think my whole life I've assumed that I'm an extrovert and I'm not. am an introvert. I'm a confident introvert. And kind of realising that a lot of my behaviours have been conditioned by being in the army. You you just get up and talk to people and stand up in front of big groups of people. It's not a problem. But now I run my own workshops and stuff. What I know is that for 24, 48 hours after those things, because I have given all of me, every last drop of my energy and everything in the room, the next day I'm dead. I literally need 48 hours to recover. And I think that one way that we can be really observant of ourselves and other people is who in the year, who are my extroverts, who are my introverts? My introverts might not want to come. to a big social party, they might appreciate a really lovely bottle of wine and they might appreciate the afternoon off to go home or to go to the park or something. Yeah, exactly. And maybe a really lovely, I know I was reading about the fact that some employers give people gifts or whatever. Maybe the question leaders could ask, not necessarily this year, but next year is, what would be the most meaningful thing that I could give you as your employer? as a thank you for your work this year. that's really good. That's really good. love that. Can I ask something else? I'm interested to know. Is there a part of you when you put on all these parties and events that hides away because you're self-critical and you don't want to run the risk of seeing people not like it? I am absolutely self-critical, like horrendously so. It's probably my best skill. I think sometimes if I'm in big groups, I never get this if I'm on a one to one or a one to two or three, but in a big group, there is a little voice that tells me that I'm really boring and I don't have anything to contribute to this. I think, so some time ago, There was an experience where I was in a group of people. This is another thing that comes up at Christmas time. So I'm completely going off track here. But feeling lonely in a group of people that you know really well. Yeah, I've had that. I've had that. Horrible. Horrible. And I, when I realized that for a while, I questioned my belonging in that group of people. And then I really got to work on understanding me and my values and what I've, what was important to me. And I realized it was because I value deep, deep meaningful conversation. I value words. I value thoughts and possibility and I'm quite, I love poetry and so that kind of conversation of what would happen if we did this, like you'll never, like a question I will sometimes, like what, so what's bringing you joy at the moment? And people are like what? But some people are like random and then other people are like, that's a lovely question. And then we have these really rambling conversations and stuff. But what I realized was that my, need for deep conversation. I don't really drink. I'm not really a party game person. I would rather sit and really, really have a lovely conversation with somebody or go for a really gorgeous walk. But that environment was not conducive to the things that really light me up. It lit the people up that I was with, but it wasn't the thing that lights me up. So when I know that I had those things coming up, I have to make sure I've lit me up before that event happens. Yeah, that's so, so, so, so right. you know, I lead with introversion. I'm a confident introvert, introvert, extrovert, but all thinking behaviours. So task results, that kind of thing. And logic, that kind of stuff. And I have forgotten what I was going to say now. yeah, that was it. So yeah, before a big social occasion, it's almost like going into training for something. I have to get ready for it and then I have to recover afterwards. So I have to have the me time. The other thing that I've just recognized that I tend to do, and also helps me get through these things as well, particularly this time of year. So I think we should just bring it back and just remember that all of this stuff goes on probably throughout the year, but at Christmas it's so much heightened. It feels bigger, it feels harder because of all of this other stuff that's going on and because of the other stuff that this time of year brings is that Sometimes what I do, and my big thing is the social thing, is that I will end up talking just to one or two people. And Pam will be like, did you speak to so and so? No, didn't see them. No, didn't see them. I'll just end up speaking to one or two people. And that for me is comfortable. That for me is perfect. People want to come talk to me, come talk to me. And I'll talk to you. Absolutely I will. Be glad to. I'll be happy to. But... Yeah, I'm not gonna do the kind of, how's your year been? yeah. And then you go, do know what's been absolutely horrific? And then the conversation goes, they walk away and find someone else to talk to, because you just been honest. And that crappy small talk. So yeah, I tend, and sorry if you've been one of those people, I tend to latch on to somebody and just talk to them. Because that's how I deal with some of these things. I'm here. that, I think understanding, sorry, just understanding that about people is absolutely crucial. And even understanding that about yourself at this time of year and throughout the year is really important. Yes. I had a profound thing to say and it's disappeared. Look at us, we're like... We're like fishes! sorry it'll come back. no, what I was gonna say was what I'm hearing there is some boundaries. I prefer meaningful conversation. So I am not going to ask other people small talk questions. I prefer being with a smaller group of people. So I will tend to stay in this group over here. I don't like... I don't like disco so I'll happily come to the bar with you but I won't come on to the club afterwards. Or even simply, thanks so much for the invitation, that doesn't work for me. Have a great time. Yeah, exactly that. Yeah, but people understanding that about each other and me being okay to say that and feel okay to say that, but other people to, and I think with me generally people kind of get it now, but people would go, okay, that's fine, Craig, that's not a problem. I don't think probably some people that will listen to this will realize the reasons for. me avoiding things or not going to things or being quiet until this very episode. So I think that might be a surprise for an awful lot of people. Don't get me wrong, there are some times where it's just not a problem and I go, yeah, cool, I'll come along and it's fine. But I'm in that space where I, for whatever reason, I feel okay or I'm just in a space in time where I feel okay being yellow. But I think people have to, not just all year, but particularly this time of year where everything is so heightened, people are gonna find certain things so much harder because of the other stuff we talked about, because of that mental overload, because of the pressures, because of all that other stuff that comes with this time of year that just makes it harder. Yeah, so I wanted to just really quickly go over some other ways that you can inadvertently cross someone's line. And I'm going to use the social event as the precept for this, okay? So you never come to any of the social events, blaming them. You have to come to the social event. Everyone else is going to be there controlling the event. you would feel so much better if you came to the social event and offering unsolicited advice. If you come to the event, then it will be really good fun and you'll meet loads of people and you'll have a dance and have a really great time, like defining to someone else what the event should look like and then criticizing, yeah, and then there's criticizing people, just criticizing. And I think when we open our mouths, we have to ask ourselves what is, like we have this in our family, let's pause and what is the intent of my comment going to be? Because invariably, I am, you know, Phil's decorating, I'm the decorator, I get twitchy when he decorates, but I will go out there to support and to make a helpful comment, but actually it's, I'm criticizing him because he's not doing it the way that I would do it and I'm trying to control the outcome. So. Yeah. be mindful of our intent when we offer something to somebody else. And can I just add something in there quick? So for me, what I have done in the past or what works better for me in terms of that boundary is go, do you know what? I'm not gonna come to that big thing, but do you know what? Let's catch up just me and you or me, you and someone else or me, you and a couple of other people or whatever in an environment that I feel more comfortable in. Because actually I would... probably value that more than this other thing. And you know, I think that's okay to do as well, but I think there has to be that understanding from both points of view. And if we're gonna use the social occasion, or even you could be buying gifts or whatever, that's quite a big thing, I think, as well is that. People that are watching or listening to this, you do not know what is going on in somebody else's head and somebody else's heart. You do not know what's going on in their world. So, just remember that and be kind. Yeah, lead with kindness. Like, and we keep saying this every episode, like the world needs more kindness. It doesn't need more judgment or anger or projection or criticism. Like there is enough of it to go around the universe and back again. If we can all in our little corner of the world, lead with kindness, with the intention to leave someone or something in a better percentage of goodness, than we find it, then that's what we, I feel like we should be doing that. What came to mind just then when you were talking was as business leaders, that this all forms part of business culture and the culture that we inculcate, the culture that we allow and the culture that we encourage. But, so my husband was talking about work. and we were talking about FaceTime and how some people will not leave until the clock is supposed to finish ticking, even if they've done their work. And I just wondered, and I said, well, culturally, who's, you do that as a middle manager, but at the very top, how is it trickling down? How do we know it's okay for us to go at, to go and have family time or whatever, if we've done our work, how is that articulated? And he went, well, it's not. I said, well, then culturally, you're not in, you're not inculcating a space where people really know what the lines are. So it's great that you let people go early, but there's no parity across everybody. So I just think that, again, like when we're thinking about Christmas stand-down, extra pressures, the relentless to-do lists on top of all of their personal stuff, how do leaders... create a culture where people can take the pressure off a little bit in their work environment rather than it just being an additional pressure. Yeah, I agree, and I think we can also... relate that to, is that the right word? Yeah, what's the word I've got? Relate that to people like us who run their own businesses. Now we don't have necessarily people working for us all of the time or any of the time, but how do we, people like us, also do that when, quite frankly, Christmas is just in the way. Christmas, the whole Christmas period is harming my business. And how do I... take that pressure off? How do people like that, us take that pressure off? But also you're right, within organizations, how do leaders that are responsible for teams or responsible for the organization, how do they also do that? Because, yeah, there's enough, isn't there? Yeah. I mean, there's, I think there were two sides. There's the must do, nice to do, you can do that another time. But I always think, you know, the acronym WIN, what is important now? Christmas, the Christmas period is the end of the year and people are exhausted. across the board, think we can say the kids are exhausted, everyone is tired. we, I guess it's where is the priority? What is the priority over the next month? Is it to rest? Is it to recharge? Is it to strategize? Is it to do the taxes? Is it to run a marathon? Whatever that is for the business without that purpose, without that really clear vision of what's going on in the next month, what's going on in the next three months and the next six, etc I think we can get lost in the day-to-day stuff because we're not asking ourselves what's important now. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think there's a whole load of things coming in there for me. There is, and again, I suppose I can only really talk from my own experience is accepting this time of year and rather than worry about the opportunities I'm missing and the stuff that's piling up. is actually focus on the opportunities it's giving me. So this is a complete reframe. So yes, it's quiet, it's quiet business wise, but it doesn't mean I don't have stuff to do. So I've got to make the most of that and using my time really effectively and planning. You we've talked about planning a few times now, I think over the course of the past few episodes. and re-evaluating the plan and re-evaluating the strategy. then also going, do you know what, it's Christmas, it's not gonna go away. I also need to recharge because otherwise my next year isn't, that's gonna have a negative impact on my next year. So it's about taking that time and making the most of it, I would say. In whatever form making the most of it comes. But I think leaders have to, they have to be careful with their plans and strategies, organizations do, businesses do, so that we can accept this time for what it is and make the most of it. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I think... So kind of what you're describing is gratitude for what is, not resentment of what is not. Yeah, totally that. Yeah, totally that. Yeah. thinking about, like, I think it's, I think it's really, it must be really hard for business leaders. We're in this current situation of real global unrest. Culturally, there's so many conflicts. There are so many unsaid conversations. People are afraid of speaking up about X, Y and Z. then there are differing political opinions, there is cost of living crisis, there is projection of income, there's potential recession on the horizon. There are so many things that we are up against. But I always just come back to fundamentally that without our people, we don't have businesses and we don't have organizations. So the priority, what is important now is are my people okay? And if they are not okay, what can I do within the realm of my position to help them to become more okay? So that they can thrive and my business can also thrive. So. Yeah, and maybe involving the people in that, in saying, you know, what do you need to be okay? And again, this relates to people like us, those, what do you call them, solopreneurs or whatever, or, you know, small business owners like us, they might have a very small team or they might be on their own, you know. In order to do what we do and keep our businesses thriving, we've got to look after ourselves as well. And you know, I know I've repeated myself, but I'll come back to it. This is, this is, I think it's down to your, what we mentioned in part one, that are the whole, when things are not feeling good is that reflection piece. And then turning that into, into actions and a plan. It's, it's being all over your plan. So as you said, knowing what, what I need to do now, what can, what can be put off. to maybe when we come back after Christmas, what can actually be dumped altogether, re-evaluating that and making sure that you also give yourself that space and that time to fill your cup up, that your team can fill its cup up, so that when you come back in January, you're ready to go again. And whilst all of that, I'm also thinking that you don't forget why you're doing this. You don't forget where you're heading your vision. You don't forget your purpose, why you're doing it. And you don't forget those values that are keeping everyone together. And yeah, I feel that's a little bit disjointed, but for me, I think it's looking after yourself mentally, physically, whatever that means for you, you know, being present, being mindful, that gratitude thing, and just having a fricking good plan. Thank you. And being organised with that. And I think that makes a huge difference. And I think a really good question to reflect on as individuals and within teams and organizations is getting really comfortable with what do I need to be okay? What does this team need to be okay? What do we need to do and have to thrive? Because okay is, you know, 50, 50 is getting by. Yeah, it is getting by, yeah. Actually, we want people to be thriving. We want people to be... love that. What do we need to thrive? I love that. You know what? That perfectly links back to the after, where am I from? The after, after, after action review that I mentioned in part one. What is going well? I think that that really helps with the gratitude and actually, you know, there are some things that we're doing good, we're doing good at. What isn't going so well? What do we, as a result, what do we need to do differently or better? And then what do we need in order to do that? And that for me really links because when you do that, you're going to be focusing on the things that help you to thrive. That's don't know where I'm gonna go now. Just, think maybe even if that was the leading question, like without any of the other questions, what do we, I need to thrive today? Like if okay is here and thrive is there, what do I need? And I think as we go into this season and we continue through. and we take off the expectation and we just, for me it would be, I have to go for a walk every day. That's just what I do. But for you, it might be, you need to go to basketball. For someone else, it might be the need to go to the gym. Someone else might need to watch TV. I don't know. What do you need to be at your best? and how, what are the steps to take that? And as we go into this high pressure scenario where, you know, you're with people all the time and there's all this stuff that we've talked about. Within that, where is the space for each of us to own our little bit of freedom to do the thing that lights us up so that effectively we're all like Christmas trees when we come together. Like it's not my responsibility to switch your lights on, it's yours. Yeah, totally that. Yeah, yeah, Absolutely. I'm thinking, where are we on a scale of one to thrive? Yeah. One to five or one to thrive? Did you just do that? One to Thrive. look at you! So one to 10, 10 being thrive, where are we? Why are we there? What do we need to get there? If you wanna add some other reflection questions in, then fine. But yeah, that's a really, really powerful thing for me. And I think, for me, I've just got so many really valuable golden nuggets and takeaways rattling around in my head. that we've talked about over part one and this part two. I'm wondering, would it be okay if we just quickly recapped what those were? Because I think there's just so many and hopefully that might even lead us into our finale ponder point. So we started off in part one talking about mental load, didn't we? And then we talked about how you know, kind of the whys and wherefores around that, but also what we can do about that. And we mentioned that reflection piece is really important, we? So give yourself that space and that time to reflect, I think is really, really, really important. Then we talked about expectations and there's what was it about expectations that is really important to consider? to let them go. Like if we didn't carry the expectation, we can never be disappointed by the outcome. Yeah, absolutely. there's letting go of the expectations we put on ourselves or we think that are there, but also the expectations we might inadvertently put on others without really realising it. Just through, yeah go on. No, I was gonna say, when I'm saying that in a social environment, I don't mean it in terms of if we have no expectations on the outputs of this business, we won't be disappointed. Like that's different, that's setting standards. But we're talking about, this event is gonna be, Christmas has gotta be amazing, you know, it's gonna be glorious, and we're be swinging from the chandeliers, like let go of all that. It's not your expectation, you are holding. So you are holding the expectation of a economic and societal pressure, I think. Yeah, it's the thing around, you know, gifts and, and how much food and drink you've got and how many parties you can go to and what you've got to wear and, all of that stuff. You know, in terms of a business organisational sense, you're, you're very, very right. Expectations are not values or standards that we absolutely stick to. They're not objectives that, or, or, we're trying to achieve in, in, in pursuit of that vision. that we're trying to create and get to. That's not expectations at all. I think that, yeah, you're right. That's very, very different. So we talked about expectation. We then kind of merged that with boundaries a little bit as well. We talked about the boundaries that we have and we might place and stuff like that. just give us a little recap on that if you don't mind, Lisa. so boundaries being the things that work for you, the things that make you feel okay or not okay. And it's the articulation of that to each other so we can learn how to treat each other better. And also understanding where other people sit in terms of what's okay for them, what's not okay for them. And being kind, helping them with that. You know, if you take me with the social thing, I'm very, very blue. Your, and Pam is, weirdos, very, very yellow. So the outgoingness and having somebody really understand where each other is so that we can... we can make that better for us both, for everyone is so, so important. It's important for us to understand and to articulate that, but it's also important for other people to understand so they understand it and help you with it. So yeah, I really loved that particular conversation. I thought that was very, very illuminating. And then what do we talk about after that, Lisa? Remind me. We've talked about how businesses can support their people and sort of putting people front and foremost. It's interesting when you look at statistically, something like, again, on CEO Today, just, maybe you could put this as a link in the show notes, but. 73 % of UK workers worry about their work disrupting their festive plans. Over a quarter fear they'll be required to work over the holidays and half of all employees have had their holiday break interrupted by work commitments. So the most wonderful time of the year becomes an extension of what is already a really demanding life. So just being really aware of your intention as a business owner, employer, leader. Yeah, absolutely. on the flip side, I think as well is the perspective that I know some people have, as in not necessarily work getting in the way of me enjoying the festive period, but the festive period is getting in the way of my work. Because for some people, work is really important and they don't want anything to get in the way. And absolutely, that's absolutely fine if that's their thing. Or, know, they are trying to keep their business going or their organization going. And I think it's really important in those moments is not to get bogged down in that and resentful of that and overwhelmed by that and to accept the period of time and to make the most of the opportunities it gives you, not the opportunities it doesn't give you. So that time to recharge, that time to reflect, that time to maybe just take a bit of time to restrategize and reevaluate your plan and to shift things around a little bit and to get yourself in a place where when it comes January 2nd or 3rd or whenever you get back to the office, you hit the ground running. Yeah, I think leading with what's important now is a good way of approaching that. Yeah. Also, what can we do to take us from, or where are we on the scale of one to thrive? So whether that's us personally, or whether that's our teams, and maybe chatting about where we are and what we need to get to that place. So I think that incorporates all of that other stuff that we've just talked about. I think that comes into that in some way, shape or form. and either identifying ourselves or with a loved one or a close friend or even just by ourselves what we need to be able to thrive and making sure that if we need to those boundaries are there and that they're understood and for other people to understand them. But also most importantly in organizations and teams is yeah, where are we? collectively, where are the team members, where is the organisation and what can we do to help them thrive during this festive period, to take that pressure off what is a very pressured, emotionally charged period of time for lots of people, for lots of different reasons. So again, they can come back stronger in the new year. 100 % I totally agree with all of that. So at the beginning of the conversation, like four days ago, you said that you to have some strategies and sort of understand how to be okay as the next few weeks come by. How do you feel like we've come with that? I mean, I have no idea how this is gonna come across when people watch it back or they listen to it. But yeah, I think as I said at the start, I've been feeling the stress over the past few days, not just because of Christmas, but for lots of reasons. And Christmas certainly isn't helping it and is probably adding to it and making it feel a little bit harder. But I feel completely different now. I honestly really, really do. if anything, it's just given me different perspectives and maybe a different way of looking at it a few things that I can think about and do. yeah, so many different things about expectations, about boundaries, about reflection, about, you know, I'm even thinking now about, cause I'm a big planner, big, big planner, lots of notes and stuff like that about various ideas I've got. You know, I don't have any assignments booked over the next week. Well, not any major ones, you know, some coaching here and there and stuff like that. But I'm gonna use that time wisely to make sure that I'm in a position where January is as good as it can be. So I almost wanna set myself up now for the new year so that when I get to kind of next weekend, Monday when we're really kind of gearing up for Christmas day, boxing day, et cetera, that I want to enjoy it and I want to enjoy it for what it is, which is downtime, recharge time, reflection time, time with Pam and the grumpiest cat in the world, Scamp. And yeah, just, do you know what I really wanna do? And I'm really gonna try this, is just be really present over that period of time. But I think what I do now between now and then is gonna make a difference to whether I can do that or not. And then just accept that period of time that I got off, that is my time. Or that is time for me to make the most of in a really good way and not be resentful for it. So, yeah, it does. And I'm curious because you just said, I almost want to. did I? Almost one to what? What's the other bit? these changes and then you explain what those changes would be. So do you want to or do you almost want to? I didn't even notice that I said that. Wow. You are observant, Lisa Butler. Wow. No, I do want to. Yeah, no, it's a really great question actually, and I think the almost thing comes from I maybe don't quite believe this yet. Because, I mean, don't get me wrong, my stress and my pressures haven't gone away. They're still there. They're still underlying. But I feel much better about them, and I feel like there's something I can do about them. And I suppose the almost will disappear when I actually do something about it. So I definitely want to. Will I? I hope so. So as soon as this is finished, I'm writing a little list and I'm doing some, going back to the plans and stuff like that. And then, yeah, and that will happen because, do you know what? I'm just fed up of feeling under pressure and resentful this time of year. I really am. And I felt it for a long, long, long, time for different reasons and I'm just tired of feeling that way and I think I need to be a bit more intentional about it. Amazing Well, if that's what you've got from this session, I'm really hoping that anyone that's listening gets something from it too, because then it's, you know, the sharing has all been worth it. And I said you'd be like therapy for me Lisa. I'll charge next time. What about you? What have you got from talking about this? Because I know Christmas and the trials, tribulations and pressures that come with it is a huge thing for you as well. So what have you got from it? The piece around health and wellbeing and just the importance of prioritising that against all of the other demands on time and energy. So do you mean making sure that you carve out time and that you're using and organising your time well over this period? Yeah, exactly that and a conversation that we've already started having is sort of laying out Here's the days of the of the Christmas break. What do we want to achieve as a family? What do we need to achieve as individuals? How how are we going to create that? and the next thing I'm gonna look at doing is the it's a sort of articulation of the plan, but the expectation within the family of This is your part in this Christmas festivity. This is yours, this is mine. And the sharing of responsibility, because it doesn't just land on one person or another, it's a family event and so therefore the responsibility should be shared. And then lastly, what this conversation has done is just really reinforced what it is I'm focusing on with work and the offerings that I'm going to put out. my god, Craig, I've got a landing page and I've got a website and I've got a proper like Lisa Butler at no Lisa at Lisa Butler coaching.com like Uzo Amaka my VA is like I know right. So for the anyone that's listening, anyone that's listening or watching, this is huge for Lisa because Lisa, I thought Pam was bad, sorry Pam, but you are, but Lisa is the biggest techno-phobe, just doesn't do tech or get tech that I have ever, ever come across. So this is huge. Well done. my tech is in it, but what it does is it's kind of this conversation, that tech foundation means that like, I'm really excited about I've got my health, my family and my work. Like life is good. I'm feeling very grateful and privileged about it all. yeah, so lots, lots coming up in here too. So thank you. no, my pleasure. No, thank you. And I think we've, we've, we've, we've, we've covered loads of ponder points there, but a big ponder point, L Y L podcast ponder point that's coming up for me there is that, and throughout this is to give, give yourself that time and space to, to reflect, reevaluate, to adjust, to re-plan, re-strategize, set out, what that looks like. Because I think when you have clarity, when it's all on top of you and overwhelming, you can't see the wood for the trees, can you? it's, my God, I'm drowning and stuff like that. But when you give yourself that space and time, you get clarity and then you're better able to deal with things and things don't feel so bad. And then I would say, once you've done all of that, is it okay then just to go with the flow? Yeah, let's just not overthink all this stuff. Let's just, let's not stay there. Let's enjoy watching the leaves blow off the trees. Let's enjoy watching our families sprinkle mince pie crumbs down their chest and Aunt Betty dribbling as she snores in the corner. Like, let's just enjoy being alive because right now that feels like a huge privilege in itself. So let's just enjoy that and do things that make us from... that remind us that we are alive. Like, get out, feel the rain on your face, get on a hill, feel the wind in your hair, like, do that. Yeah, absolutely. Barbecue a Christmas Turkey, even. It's a game changer, everyone. You should do it. It's a game changer, everyone. So yeah, and I think when you give yourself, and you don't have to spend long on this, everyone, when you give yourself that time and space to reflect and think about some of these things and then to put in place some of these actions, that gives you the ability to then go with the flow. That gives you the ability to then enjoy that stuff, to be grateful for that stuff. because you haven't got the worry and the pressure because you've got a plan. And all you have to do is build all of this stuff into that plan. And this is me being very, very organized and blue now and then enjoy it. Go with the flow. yeah, awesome conversation. Do you have, I'm pretty sure we had that there, but do you have a specific LYL ponder point? And we've had loads this time around. Just, I say no and then just, what do you need? That's it. Yeah. Not what do you want, what do you need? Yeah, what do you need? And then put in place the things you need to do to, in order to get that. And then hopefully the rest should be a lot easier. You'll give yourself that time and space to go with the flow, to enjoy it and to come back all guns blazing in January. Absolutely amazing, Lisa. Thank you so much. And wow, what an episode in two parts. So watch it over Christmas and listen to it over Christmas, because there is some absolute gold in these two parts to this Christmas episode of the LYL Podcast. So I hope you enjoyed it, everyone. I hope you got a lot of value from it. I hope you found it as interesting and as worthwhile as me and Lisa has. So don't forget to give us a like, a subscribe, a follow. on whatever channel you're listening and watching us on because that helps us get out even further because yeah, you know, we want 2025 to be big for the podcast, don't we Lisa. We've got really, really, really good plans for it. So we hope you enjoyed it. Thank you very much. We wish everybody a very, very Merry Christmas. Have fun, try and enjoy it. Try and take that pressure off and yeah, come back into the new year all guns blazing. See ya! Happy Christmas! Merry Christmas everyone. And there we have it, part two of this special Christmas edition of the Living Your Learning podcast. We really hope you enjoyed it. And don't forget, please do give us a like, a follow or a subscribe on whichever channel you are listening or watching on. And we look forward to you joining us next time. Merry Christmas, everyone.