Episode Four | Motivation Special Part One | Understanding and Developing Motivation

Keywords

Motivation, Developing Motivation, Personal Growth, Self-Reflection, Vision, Purpose, Values, Why, Consistency, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, Intrinsic and Extrinsic Motivation, Self-Awareness.

Summary

In this episode, Lisa and Craig delve into the complexities of motivation, exploring personal experiences and what impacts motivation levels. They discuss the importance of understanding one's vision, purpose, and values, and how these elements contribute to consistent motivation. The conversation emphasises the significance of self-reflection and the need to identify the deeper 'why' behind personal goals in order to make them more effective. The hosts also touch on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and how it relates to motivation, ultimately encouraging listeners to create their own 'motivation chocolate bar' - a metaphor for the ingredients necessary for sustained motivation.

Takeaways

• Motivation can be a tumultuous relationship for many individuals.
• Isolation can significantly impact motivation levels.
• Understanding your vision, purpose, and values is crucial.
• Self-reflection is key to understanding personal motivation.
• It's important to identify the deeper 'why' behind your goals.
• Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs plays a role in motivation and fulfilment.
• Creating an environment that fosters intrinsic motivation is essential.
• Setting arbitrary goals without underlying motivation can lead to failure.
• Personal values should guide decision-making and goal-setting.
• Engaging in self-inquiry can lead to profound insights about one's motivations.

Sound Bites

• "Motivation is what you need."
• "You can't motivate another person."
• "It's about creating an environment where you can be motivated"

Further Reading

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Get In Touch

If you would like help with your motivation or to identify your own Vision, Purpose (Why) and Values, get in touch, we'd love to help you.

Craig's Email: craig@livingyourlearning.com

and

Lisa's Email: lisabutlercoaching@gmail.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Hello And Welcome Back
• 1:44 This Thing Called Motivation
• 3:49 Motivation Challenges
• 5:49 Barriers To Motivation Consistency
• 10:12 The Importance Of Self-Reflection
• 11:40 Intrinsic Vs Extrinsic Motivation
• 13:04 It's Impossible To Motivate Another Person
• 14:58 Why Basic Goal Setting Doesn't Always Work
• 17:39 The Importance Of Knowing Why
• 20:05 Diving Even Deeper Into The Why
• 23:34 The Impact Of Knowing Your Values
• 27:36 The Power Of Understanding Yourself
• 30:46 The Impact Of Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs
• 34:30 The Complexity of Goal Setting and Motivation
• 37:11 Vision, Purpose And Values As Decision Filters
• 40:02 Compromising Your Vision, Purpose And Values
• 42:55 Why Everyone Should Work This Stuff Out
• 48:41 Creating Your Everlasting Motivation Chocolate
• 52:22 Using Motivation Reminders
• 55:08 The LYL Podcast Ponder Points
• 56:56 Next Time

Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to the Living Your Learning podcast, exploring leadership, learning and everything in between. This is the place for top chats, awesome insights and hopefully a splash of inspiration that lights the way to awesome leaders, amazing teams and maybe even a better you. And on this episode, we are talking about all things motivation. So we really hope you enjoy this one. Hello everybody and welcome back to this latest episode of the Living Your Learning podcast with me, Craig McHugh and the amazing, phenomenal Lisa Butler. How are you Lisa? thank very much. Lovely to see you. No, where are we? Just, January seems to be still part of hibernation month. And then I feel like I work in rhythm with the moons and the seasons. So there are snowdrops coming through and... daffodils like nudging their way through the earth and it feels like now is the time to emerge. Totally that and I don't know about you, but it's taken me it's taken me a long time to get going this year It really has And we talked about the Christmas episodes didn't Well, I did the Christmas is a bit in the way for me And I stopped and I had a rest and I did all of that awesome stuff And I think I did it a bit too much to be honest because I've just really struggled getting back into things. And yeah, it's only really now we're into February that I'm really starting to do that, which I think leads us nicely into what we're gonna chat about today, which is. Motivation's what you need. if you wanna be a record breaker. Wow, do you remember that show? That's showing our age. I remember it. Awesome. So yes, we're going to talk about this thing called motivation. So I've always had a interesting tumultuous, if that's the right word. No, I'm going to use it tumultuous relationship with motivation. What about you? I think that's a good word. I have a love-hate relationship with it. Yeah, mine can be very up and down, can yours? Yes, it is dependent on so many different things now and that I think if we sort of had a graph of motivation from sort of dot to now, it would be massively spiky and there would be periods where it is so high and then stuff where it's just not even on the chart. Yeah, totally. So yeah, I think that would be a really, really good thing to talk about because obviously it's still early in the year. I think people are still trying to get back into the swing of things. And yeah, I think it's just a really interesting thing to unpick and to, to talk about, and then come up with some really useful, awesome tips to help people understand it and to develop it. and to keep it in as peak a fitness as possible. So where should we start Lisa with motivation? So Bob, I'd like a B and what I'm thinking is, can I ask you a question? Okay, so you told us that your relationship with motivation is tumultuous, up and downy. So what are your biggest challenges when it comes to being motivated personally? Wow, that is a really, really good question. this is going to be another therapy session for me, isn't it Lisa? Sorry, yeah, coaching. Sorry, ask the question again. What is... my questions, they're always really good and then I forget why I asked. What is your biggest challenge when it comes to your personal motivation? What is my biggest challenge when it comes to my motivation? I think it is, I think it comes in a few flavours that are perhaps all linked. I think it's just keeping it going, keeping the motivation going. And it's very, it's like we were just saying before we came on. or you just said a minute ago, it's very spiky, it's very peak and troughy. When it's good, it's really good. When it's not good, it's really, really not good. And it can impact so many different things. it can, you know, when it's good, I'm super productive and super effective. When it's not good, I'm just not productive. I'm not effective. I'm lazy. I'm blurgh. Yeah, so I think that if that answers the question, that's my biggest challenge. It's very, very up and down. When it's down, it's really down. So I think I would like it to be a bit more consistent maybe. if you could kind of take a helicopter view on you and your motivation and you looked in, what would you see is the main, like the number one thing that gets in the way of the consistency? wow, that's another really great question. What's the one thing that gets in the way of consistency? So I think there's a few things there as well. so the first thing that really impacts my motivation, which is, it, which I kind of struggle with. it's a, it's a, it's a bit surprising why it does is, and there'll be a lot of listeners out there who probably appreciate this. think you will as well. But when you're, when you're a business owner, when you're running a business, particularly if you do a lot of that on your own, it can be very isolating and lonely. Now, I'm a natural introvert, confident introvert, but a natural introvert, and I don't mind my own company, but that constantly being on your own can really impact my motivation. And I think the same could go for leaders. I certainly know leaders I speak to regularly can feel quite lonely and isolated in that role. So yeah, when I'm... not around others a lot that can really impact it. The other thing is when I don't remember or I don't lean into or I am not paying attention to my vision, purpose and values. So where I'm heading, my purpose, my why, and then my values, they're really, really important. And if I don't pay enough attention to them, everything just becomes. like a chore, a job, like I have to do it. So yeah, they're really, really super important. It's funny, isn't it? Because we think that isolation and feeling lonely is a bit of a saddo thing. But actually, when you look at the statistics of people who feel adults who feel lonely in the daytime and the knock on effect to mental health, and then not saying that that creates mental health challenges, but what it does is it reduces our self-esteem. And if we have little self-esteem, it's really hard to keep going. So that sounds entirely natural that because you're not having that, we are not having that interaction with other people. know, when you work from home, you don't get the coffee machine. All right, Craig, was your weekend? Nice jumper. You don't get that. You just, you know, you just look in the mirror and go. not nice jumper what are you exactly so yeah i i really hear that i really hear that it's totally that. you know, Pam worked from home the other day, and just then I was working from home, I didn't come to the office. And just her being at home, and we didn't, we didn't speak for most of the day, but just her being there made such a difference. So yes, that loneliness, the vision, purpose and values is really, really important for me. Yeah, and I think that will resonate with a lot of people and the loneliness piece particularly. But also it's really interesting because you can be in a room full of people and still feel really isolated and very much not on your own. And I guess in a way that comes back to vision purpose values because if we are in a group of... whether it's, doesn't matter what the people structure is, but if we are in a group where we do not feel aligned with the people that are there, we are less likely to be engaging in conversation and outputs that are meaningful to us. And therefore it will not feel like a good investment of time. Energetically, it won't feel right. All of it won't feel right. So there's a question there, isn't there of... There's a question there that isn't coming. But there's a reflection piece in those moments of who am I when I show up in this group of people? Is it actually who I am? Is it who I want to be? And if the answer's no, what's changing it? And why am I there anyway? What was my motivation for being there in the first place? Yeah. Self-reflection is such a key piece. we think motivation is external and we think it's just setting goals, but actually there's a big piece of really understanding ourselves so that we can say, hang on, who am I doing this for? Why am I doing this? What outcome am I trying to get from this? totally. And we keep coming back to self-reflection, don't we? I think we've talked about it on every single episode or most of them so far. And yeah, you're so right. It's so important because... how we feel or our motivation in those moments is going to really, really impact how we show up, isn't it? It's going to impact how we communicate. It's going to impact how we lead. It's going to impact how we interact with people. It's going to impact our behaviours. So yeah, that reflection piece and really leaning into that stuff is really, really important for me. Yeah, that's super powerful. And I think Yeah, there just seems to be a whole, God, I'm using some big words today, myriad of things that are all intertwined and interconnected. Yeah, it's super, super interesting. So I think there's so many things that impact our motivation, aren't there? I mean, you have the classic, so, you know, if you were to define motivation, you have intrinsic motivation. So that's the stuff from within. And that's motivation to do something for the joy and the pleasure and the fulfillment that you get from it, from within. And there's the extrinsic motivation, which is where you are trying to either get a reward or avoid some kind of punishment or sanction. So it's got that fear element. And that intrinsic is so much more powerful than the extrinsic. because the extrinsic, well, it's the carrot and stick approach, isn't it? And there's a lot of research that says that is completely flawed. It's a false manipulation, which we can then go into so many conversations about in terms of what are you allowing to motivate you? What are you using to try and motivate other people? Because I personally think, and we'll... probably circle back around to this is that it's impossible to motivate another person unless you've, excuse my choice of example here, unless you've got a gun to someone's head, then you might then. I think it's, people always ask me, Craig, how do I motivate my team? How do I motivate someone? Well, you can't. You have to create an environment where they can motivate themselves from the inside because that is so much more powerful. And you know that the follow on question from anybody is going to be, well, how the hell do you do that? Because like, what is that? And that's, we can cover that later. But that is a really big question of, you know, as a parent, I see it, like, how do I get my daughter to go and do some, something more than what she's doing? But it has to be, it's a bit like, you know, when your parents would say, don't do that because this will happen. You'd be like, yeah, bog off. Like, what do know? And then we, and they're trying to avoid, help us to avoid the pain or the challenge or because they've got the insight and learning, but we have to go through that ourselves in order to get to the point where we feel the need, whether that's from a health perspective, like the really, in fact, when I was a personal trainer, when I started out, I would ask the classic, you know, what goals are you trying to achieve? And people would be like, I'm trying to run a 5k. Okay, great. And you're like, do the... do the thing and then come back the next week and be like, I haven't done any of the exercises. And you're like, why not? And it'll be like really surface layer stuff. And then the more I did it and the more I started learning about coaching and stuff, I would be very much about instead of, you know, oh, what happened? I don't worry or whatever. I'd be more about what got in the way because last week you told me that was really, really important. So what happened? And actually, interestingly, most of the time people didn't do the exercises because they hadn't given themselves permission and they hadn't created the resourcing around themselves in order to free them up to have the capacity to follow through with the thing they were trying to achieve. And quite often the goal was never really the goal anyway. So in personal training, for example, it might have been, my goal is to lose three stone and run 10 miles. But underneath that is my husband keeps telling me I look really ugly. or all of my friends are really thin and I feel this when I'm out with them or when I was, know, whatever it is, there is a message that is so far under the motivation. So when you kind of hit that, then you can go, okay, so how would it feel if you felt confident in your body? How would it feel if you felt totally empowered to wear what you wanted to? Or, they go, oh yeah, that's a completely different goal. completely different but it's dressed up in sparkly bows called let's go for a run and I know for the runners I know that that is a thing but I'm just using it as a very loose example a great example. And obviously goal setting is a huge part of motivation. But I think, I think, or I wonder whether goal setting is not quite approached in the best way. And people do not get to the root cause or roots of, should I say, of why they're doing it. Because people will set this this arbitrary goal, but as you rightly said that's not often the reason why it's just a goal And I don't think people go enough layers down to actually establish Why am I actually doing it? So yeah, I want to lose weight and I'll run a I want to run a marathon or run 5k or whatever But if that's all it is, that's not gonna be enough You have to go deeper and further and there are so many ways you can do that. So And it kind of links back to what I was saying a minute ago, which around my consistency around motivation is one of the, one of the biggest things apart from obviously that, that loneliness thing, and that being around people thing, which, and I know we're going to talk about this later, but if you refer to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it's the third one in the belonging level. So that's a key part of what motivates us as humans. but is this, is this purpose thing? It's the why thing for me. when I lean into and recognize and pay attention to my why and not just an arbitrary goal, it makes so much difference. It's why money is not necessarily a motivator. You know, people say, I am motivated by money. No, you're not. You're motivated by what it will do for you. That's the motivator. It's like, you know, people don't have a lawnmower to cut the grass. They have a lawnmower to save them time. and to make cutting the grass easier. Totally right. we, should we have a, should we, I think it might be interesting to talk about this why stuff, because it seems to me that that is a really important part of it. Yeah, let's do that. So where should we start? So why don't we start with ourselves? Why don't we lead by example? what is our why? Why, why, why? But why, why do we show up, Craig? Why are we here? Why are we running businesses? Why are we, why are we doing all this stuff? So I'm super clear on my why, super clear. Do I pay enough attention to it? No, I don't. And I certainly recently I've started to lean back into it. It's always been there, but I've started to pay much more attention to it it is making a huge difference. And you know, helps me make decisions as well, together with my vision and values, because for me, they're all intrinsically linked with me. But my why is to help... the people I work with, that's leaders, teams, learning professionals, whoever, to improve, evolve, and make a positive difference every single day. That is my why. Why? is that my why? wow, really good question. That is my why because it inspires me. It motivates me. It drives everything I do. I make decisions based on that. It drives my behaviours. Most importantly, it drives... how I feel about things. That makes me feel really good. And when I do that, I feel really good. When I can help people improve and evolve and make a positive difference every day to themselves and those around them, it makes me feel good. If I'm gonna be completely selfish, when they win, I win. When they're successful, I'm successful. So there is a kind of a bit of a selfish element to it, but it's about what happens to them. And... And it's that that drives it, million percent. And why is that important? I'm gonna start disliking you in a minute You can get your own back Why is that important? Wow, that is such a good question. I'm not sure I can articulate that. It's just something that I feel deep inside. It's important because of the impact I want to have or the impact I want to create in others. That's what makes me feel good. That's what I want to remember when I'm, you know, I was going to say old and grey, maybe my beard will be grey, like Gandalf grey, hopefully. But when I'm old and I'm, you know, sitting in the garden, you know, sipping a gin and tonic, looking back and going, yeah, that was worthwhile. I'm not, the stuff, if we just go back to Motivation quickly and link it to that, you know, having a nice house and a car and all of that stuff, don't get me wrong, it's nice. And I'm never gonna turn that stuff down. And I'm not gonna say I don't want it, but it fundamentally doesn't motivate me. It doesn't. at all in any way, shape or form. Obviously it's an issue if, you know, I don't have money or somewhere to live and stuff like that, because that stuff is important. And again, it links back to Maslow's hierarchy needs, which I know we'll come back to, but yeah, it just doesn't motivate me. What motivates me is, that other stuff. That's why it's important. And I want to, I suppose selfishly, and I'm not sure how this is going to come across. I want to be able to look back and say, Yeah, I did alright. That was good. I left the world in a better place than I found it. And there would be an opportunity to continue with the why inquiry to go, well, why, why does that matter so much? Why and where does that, know, and there's that exercise, isn't there? I think if you ask why seven times and then by the time you get to the bottom of it, generally you've gone, and you've got like a, tear in your eye. then, that, but that's me, you know, that, that's, that's where it is. It's, It's the very, very sensitive and vulnerable place that creates it. And that was probably starts from somewhere when we were little, but it manifests itself into us as an adult. And I remember the first time somebody did this with me and I ended up just like in tears. It was like, I'd never really thought about that before. okay. But that makes complete sense. had some very similar powerful experiences. eight years ago, when I first started my business a couple of months before, and some people would have heard this story before, I'm gonna tell it again. It's not actually this pack of cards, it's a similar one. The actual pack of cards is safe in a vault somewhere, no it's not. But it's very precious to me. But I met up with... somebody that was like us, was a leadership trainer, was doing some leadership courses or delivering leadership courses for the company I worked for. And I I headed up the L &D department and we talked a little bit about that and he said, a guy called Tim Keehner, an amazing, amazing, amazing man. He said, right, we're gonna talk about you now. And I went, what? And he went, yeah, and we need to do this. Because, you know, I wasn't feeling good about things, you know, I mean, I used to go home on the train every night when I was back in the, you know, everyday corporate world, sitting on the same train, pretty much in the same seat in the same carriage, every single, both ways every day going, is this it? Is this what it's going to be like just forever? And it was just, my God, this is... And I didn't have that reason why it was just something that I did on autopilot every single day. Go to work, go to work, go to work. So anyway, he did this exercise where it was a pack of cards and they were like values type cards. And we, we, we were in like a coffee shop or something and we spread them all out on the table and he said, right. there's like 40 or 50 of them. And he said, right. Go through them and then reduce it by half. So I reduced it by half. then reduce it to 15. So reduced it to 15. We talked through those. He said, now I want you to reduce it to no more than six. And this is when I really started getting interested in my why and stuff like that. This was the catalyst of it all. I got it down to six and the words were freedom, adventure, creativity, integrity. No, in fact there's five and courage. which I turned to Daring Greatly. And this actually makes me really emotional thinking about it because it absolutely changed my life. And Tim said to me, does any of that exist right now in your personal professional life? And I said, no. And I got really emotional. And he said, what would happen if they did? And I went, my God, it would make all of the difference in the world. And he said, how do you get that? And then we started talking about that. And we cut a long story short, we met up in Bristol that day and I got on the train to come home. Before I got on the train, I phoned Pam and said, Pam, I'm quitting my job. She went, whoa, steady, was just before Christmas. Steady on, let's talk about it. We talked about it. I talked to my boss about it. They were amazing, very, very supportive. And then when I came back after Christmas, I handed my notice in and left and started my business. And that was when I started to really understand and learn about this whole motivation thing. And then I started to inquire about this whole why thing, because the whole thing had been missing up until that point. So I just want to pause and like really acknowledge that because there is so much in what you've just said and I want to just really honour that journey because to go there and actually, you know, open yourself out to that line of inquiry and to answer genuinely, to come up with those realizations and then to make such a shift in your own life is massive. And most people, it's too much for some people, but... What I'm hearing is just that, you know, like a really glorious demonstration of the importance of understanding yourself and the reflection and honouring ourselves in this, because so often the goals are not about us that we're working for. I wondered if I might share my moment of aha. So after my little boy was born, I had really bad post-natal depression and about 18 months afterwards, maybe two years, I know, it was whatever, I went on a retreat run by the military and we did random loads of stuff but we got sent back to our rooms with this self-reflection book and it was talking about... what had led us to doing certain things. And I was doing all this writing, yada, yada, yada. And I had this moment where I realized that pretty much everything I had ever driven, is that word? Striven for, that's my word, striven. Yeah. Everything that I'd ever strived for had never been about what I wanted. And that everything I, and I was in my early forties at this point and I had this moment of utter collapse where I was like, my life is a complete lie. Everything, everything I have done, like I'm getting all hot as I'm saying it. Joining the army, just there was so many things that I realised that had never ever been about me. They had been about fear. and trying to keep people happy and trying to make other people proud and trying to fit in and trying to da da da da da da. But none of those had ever been about making myself proud because you know even now when I look back at the military I do I feel proud of me? I really struggle to associate with that because actually those things were never I'm proud of the fact that I did it but I don't get that real sense of go me, whereas this work that I do now, I'm like, I love it. I love it so much. And it's because I've had an opportunity to really get to the bottom of the well to understand the source of the water and really go, this, this is why, this is what matters to me. Okay, I can work with that. And because that is in my belly, it is in my I'm literally all shivery as I'm talking to you. It is in me. It's like, comes from a place of this, just this knowing, this inner wisdom. And I don't mean to sound woo, but it's not about I need to go for a run. It's this, it's so much deeper than that. And it means that when I choose to do things, I can access a different reasoning to why I want to do things. that. I also recognize that that's a privileged place to come from because if I look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, can you make sure you put a diagram in the show notes? So if we just quickly talk through it, so at the bottom, we don't want to be hungry or thirsty or exhausted or cold or in pain. And then right at the top is when we are, when all of our core needs are met, we're safe, we've got love and belonging. We have status and self-esteem. Now we are ready to flourish. We are ready to take on the big challenges and really show up. Like I'm coming to this conversation and I'm at the top of that pyramid now. I really feel like it. But five years ago, I was at the very, very bottom where my nervous system was so dysregulated because I just, didn't even know how to be safe in my body. And so because of this dysregulation, I wasn't eating properly. and I wasn't resting and so you know when you are in the bottom it's really difficult to be able to have the wherewithal to really understand what you need to get at the top and so I think it's really important to urge people to recognize that you don't have to do it all now and that as long as there is some self-inquiry just a gentle question Did that feel good? No. Why did I do that? Who did I do it for? Just those gentle nudges that take us closer to understanding rather than expecting to be, ta-da! I am ready! You know, that takes years. It does. And when I had my epiphany, I suppose if we, if we go back to the, call it the motivation pyramid, Maslow's pyramid. So we have the physiological needs, basic needs. have the safety security needs, belonging needs, self-esteem needs, and the self-actualization needs. So I would probably say one to four at that point in time. were there, they were pretty good. But there was something fundamentally missing, which I felt, but I didn't know what it was or why. And when I did that exercise and I established the things that were missing, the value stuff, which then led to the why stuff, which then led to vision stuff. And for me, they're all packaged together. that and own then and only then was I able to move to that top level, the self actualization, the fulfillment, because it's that stuff that gives you that or gave me that. But the thing is you're so right. can come crashing back down to the bottom of the pyramid and you have to be able to build those blocks that foundation back up again. And for me, I think you can go up and down fairly easily, fairly regularly. day to day, week to week, month to month. And it's only when for me that I remember that why stuff, the stuff that's really important to me, that I start to move towards the top again. And yeah, it's about you recognizing where you're at and why you're there and then what you can do to move up. but don't for a minute think you can get straight to the top because if the others aren't there, it's all just gonna fall down. I completely agree and I think it's a real myth that we set a goal and then we shall get on and do it. I mean, there is, it's probably... There's a very, very small, very small group of people I know who, when they set their mind to doing something, they absolutely do it. They are so committed to doing that. And there's another point is motivation comes with its friends, commitment and discipline. But in order to have the commitment and discipline, you need the resources in order to support the commitment and the discipline. It's not, I wonder if we... We come to goal setting and motivation with such a simplistic view that we set ourselves up to fail because we haven't thought about the complexity of what it is that we're trying to achieve in the first place. percent that million percent because unless you unless you know why you're doing it fundamentally and going those layers down, why, why, why, why? And and you're also going about it in the in the way that that lights your fire for one of a better phrase, then you just simply not going going to meet it. And that's why I think there's a huge link between the why and the values, which for me is the how. it's really important. Those, those five, five values for me are really important. And if I don't have them or I can't do them, then I'm not able to bring that this, that discipline, my motivation is going to take a hit and I'm not going to want to do it. But also if I don't remember or pay attention to also why I'm doing it, then that discipline is going to take a hit and it's not going to be there. And I'm either not going to do it. I'm going to pull away or I'm not going to do it as well. So for me, they're both really, really important. And, and then I'll keep mentioning, but, this is so important for me is that I then have to link those to a place where I'm trying to get to or a place I'm trying to create, which is a very permanent, place in the future. And it's only then for me that you can then create the goals. And if you create the goals with all of that behind it, that's when it works. But if you just set an arbitrary goal, for some people it will work, but sadly it does not for me whatsoever. the other side of it is that when we understand our why and we understand what we are searching for, aiming for as a result of the why, it means that we then can attribute our resources, our time, our energy towards doing the things that mean the most to us. Otherwise we can get and then that ties in really deeply with our we could so we know sorry I'm making no sense at all. We know what the why is from the why from the why we can understand what our values are around around it. We create the vision and the purpose of why we're trying to get to XYZ. But it means that we can then set the boundaries around saying actually I'm not going to do that because my aim is to try and. I want to run a marathon. Actually, I don't want to go on the beer this weekend because my marathon's in three months time and I'm really trying to look after my body. So thanks, but no, I'll dip out this time. Rather than, probably should do. I don't really know why that doesn't feel good for me, but I'll go anyway. I didn't really enjoy that. you know, we really, really dishonour ourselves by not knowing those things and not having the... language to be able to say no or yes to the things that take us towards the things that we want. I couldn't agree more with that. And I think it was something I heard from Simon Sinek. So obviously Simon Sinek is a great, I can't trailblazer in terms of the why he's got the book Start With Why. If I think a lot of people have read it, if you haven't read it, go and read it. It is phenomenal everyone. Or just go and watch his Ted Talk, the Start With Why Ted Talk, the original Ted Talk. It will explain it all in there. It is genius. literally, when I read that, my whole world changed. really, really did. Um, but he, but, um, but he also, what I was actually trying to get at is he says about the values bit. Now the values bit how we do it. And this is important because it's, it's not enough just to know why you're doing it and the impact you want to have. You have to be able to do that in a way that works for you. And I think this is what brings. some of that discipline and helps you with those goals. But he says, with the values, they're behaviours, they're doing words, this what you say and do, live and breathe every single day, which will help you bring the why to life. And this is the important bit about those. They are filters through which you make decisions. Now I have chosen not to work with people through my business or with organisations through my business. where my, either my vision, my why, my purpose or my values or all three are compromised. Because if I can be really blunt, if they're compromised, I feel like utter shit. I feel crap, demotivated. It really demotivates me. In fact, there was one time at band camp, it wasn't band camp clearly, but I was on an assignment. This was like pre-COVID. So it was a good few years ago now. And I was on an assignment, was just feeling really, really crap about it. I was feeling very demotivated by it. Just felt like I was going through the motions, know, ticking boxes. And that's not why I do this. I don't do this to tick a box. I do this to help people make a difference themselves and others. And so I was really struggling with it. And I said to Pam, I'm just really struggling with this assignment. And it was, you know, leadership development, it was leadership training, stuff I love, but I was really struggling with it. And in Pam's absolute genius, which really annoys me because she doesn't even know that she does it and that's why she's a genius. She went, what impact is it having on your values? I went, what? And your why, your purpose thing that you've been working on. I went, what? Well yeah, do you know your values, it's the whole thing that the LYL sits on. Your values, your purpose, your why. How is it impacting them? And I went, my god, you've got it. It is not helping me to bring that why to life, that purpose to life, and I'm compromising every single one of my values. No wonder I feel like utter crap. And I decided that I was no longer gonna work with that particular organization. And they did nothing wrong, was nothing necessarily wrong with them, it just didn't work for me and my why and my values. So I said, I'll finish off the bits we got booked in, but. I don't think I'm the right person to work with you on this and I'm happy to recommend other people. And it was all kind of, you know, we went our separate ways on good terms and all of that stuff. But I was actually really, really proud of myself for doing that. And I was like, yeah, I'm not going to compromise this stuff because it really made a difference. It made a difference to my performance. It made a difference to everything. Yeah, yeah, those light bulb moments are amazing. And it's like we almost almost we do we all need to have our little mission statements on the wall with our values and our vision for our lives. You know, when we go to work, we've got the values and vision statement of the business, but no one ever asked anybody in the business what their vision and values were. So we don't really know who we've got in front of us in the first place. So yeah, that's, that's a really, really good point. Yeah. plug and a shout out for this stuff is that if anyone wants help, me and Lisa will help you to find your why, identify your values, work on a vision. We will help you. I have had people that I've coached in this very building here. this is my office, those of you watching on video is a... is a prison cell, where my office is, it's an old naval dockyard prison. And in this very building, in a meeting room just down the corridor there, I had a leader in tears in front of me, in the best possible way, because they worked out their why, and then suddenly it was like a million light bulbs going on, and you could see the shift in their energy and... just every like the clouds had lifted and yeah, it was, it was quite an emotional tearful moment for both of us actually. So yeah, if anyone wants help with, doing this stuff, just, just hit us up because we love helping people and it is so important and literally can be life changing when you are really clear on this stuff, because everything hangs off of it, your goals, your decisions, your behaviours, how you feel. your motivation, it's important stuff. And it's not a conversation that we are having in society. Like, I really feel like if at school, we talk to kids about that, to help them understand what their values are, that they can then set themselves their compass for their life so that when they go to an organization, they can be discerning. And I know that there's, I know you have to pay the bills, blah, blah, blah. But there is also an opportunity to... congruently engage in activities that align with your values and beliefs and whether that's friendships, social situations, whatever it is, gives us agency to be able to say no or yes to the things that really align with us rather than giving our soul away and squeezing ourselves into boxes that don't really fit us just to please others. more that will hit your motivation and keep it at bottom instead of a peak fitness. So bottom of the pyramid instead of the top is when you, is when the soul is sucked out of you. I've been there, I'm sure you've been there Lisa, and you are, you are selling your soul because it does not have to be that way. And all of this stuff has an impact on so much other stuff. I mean, we, we, we mentioned reflection earlier. When you, when you reflect on this stuff and you, identify this stuff, it helps with self awareness in those, in those really tough moments where you say, my God, why am I doing this? Is this all worth it? And then you remember why you're doing it and you remember perhaps you think about where am I on that pyramid and okay, so why am I there and how can I move up? Okay, I could do that. And you know, what, what values are being compromised right now or what, what am I not leaning into enough? What's missing? So you go and do that and then it sets you back up again and it sets you on the way again. And all of that will impact how you show up every day, how you communicate, how you behave. So, and I know we've talked about before the whole emotional intelligence bit, but it helps with all of that. And yeah, it's all intertwined, but yeah, it's not talked about enough and I don't think, and I think a lot of people come to it. I'm not sure it's ever too late. But they come to it late and yeah, you should work this stuff out as soon as possible because not only does it help your motivation, it helps with so many things. And kind of going back to you sort doing the shameless plug, I actually feel like if we don't tell people to go and get this thing done, like it doesn't even need to be a big thing. You could have a 90 minute clarity call with someone. ask them an awful lot of questions and they would walk away with such a deep insight about themselves that would save them time, money, energy, resources, heartache. Like just having that insight of who they are, feels like a magical thing that no one talks about, but everybody really should just go and do this thing. Just go and have a coaching call. Just get some clarity around. what lights you up, what brings you back so that you can take that forward. it's really, it's, was just gonna say, it's really good fun to do as well. It's really enjoyable. You know, when I identified my values, I did it with a, pack of values cards, similar to this. You know, it probably took an hour, 90 minutes. Have I tweaked those values over the years? Yeah. And I've added behaviours to them. So I'm really clear on how I show up with those. But they're essentially still the same. you know, finding your why and working out a why statement does not take long at all. And it's really interesting and good fun and can, can be very, very powerful. In fact, I'm going to chuck a freebie out. If you want to learn how to find your why, go and get Simon Sinek's book, Find Your Why. And he actually tells you how to do it. and it's really easy. It's really straightforward. It's really enjoyable. But if you want someone to go through it with you, which I would always recommend, yeah, go and find somebody, whether it's us or whoever to help. you go through it because it will be so much better and so much more valuable. And do you know what I'm wondering now, Lisa, and I'm just dying to find a way to bring this in. Okay. And this is probably not a, probably a crap way to try and squeeze this in. But do you remember we talked the other day and you mentioned motivation chocolate and I lolled out loud. tell how does all this link to motivation chocolate? Cause I think it might. you bit like your Gandalf stick from a few episodes back. Motivation chocolate. I should write book. Lisa's Random Metaphors of Life. Okay, so I texted you the other day or left you a voice note to say that I was really struggling with getting motivated and I said wouldn't it be great if you could buy motivation chocolate where you could like just lick a bit on the corner or nibble a chunk, have a whole chunk, have a bar, eat seven bars, but that you would give you something back. Apart from a belly. which yeah which actually would be cool but it still wouldn't give you what you needed because it would be a short-term rescue remedy for not really understanding why you're stuck in the first place right. but maybe we can use the bar of motivation chocolate as a metaphor for this stuff, for all of the things that can help you keep your motivation at peak fitness. It's like, I suppose it's like an everlasting motivation chocolate bar or everlasting motivation gobstopper. It's something, go on. as you're saying, I'm getting a real vision of that we all design our own chocolate bar. So what needs to go in your chocolate bar for you to feel motivated? when I asked you at the beginning, what stops you being consistent? What stops me being consistent is not meeting my basic needs. So. If I have not had enough sleep, generally my eating habits go to shit. And then I am just loitering in the cupboards looking for a high sugar snack. And then I have no energy, so I don't want to go to the gym or do anything. And then I've got minimal energy to give back. And then it goes on and on and on and this cycle gets tighter and tighter and tighter. And then I get a massive migraine. Then I'm sick. Then I have to go to bed for a couple of days. And then the cycle starts again. Whereas if I just honoured... myself every day with the I care about myself so deeply that I am going to make sure I have enough rest. care about myself so deeply that I'm going to make sure I stop and eat something at lunchtime even if it's only a cheese and pickle sandwich but I am going to stop and you know I have ADHD so I forget to eat and I get all excited about what I'm doing and I get completely lost but I can there are ways around that I can set an alarm on my phone to remind me to drink water you know we are not We don't have to do these things alone, but the opportunity to just... Hang on, I've lost my thread now. Chocolate bar. If we really think about what do I need to thrive? What do I need to be okay? What do I need to just be okay to show up in the world? What does that look like? What are the ingredients in my chocolate bar? And then... What would that look like if I was at 100 %? Now what are the ingredients? Oh, okay, well, there's no way that I can put all of those ingredients in the chocolate bar right now because I don't have them. What do I have? so yeah, motivation is like an everlasting chocolate bar or everlasting gobstopper. You gotta choose what your flavour is and then put it in. So a couple of things you mentioned there. I don't know if people are on video, you won't be able to see it, but I'm holding my phone up. I have a reminder that pings up on my phone of my vision, purpose and values. I don't read it every day. But when I do, it makes a huge difference. I even have a reminder that pings up on my phone about, I'm just gonna find it now, about motivation, where I use the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the motivation pyramid, to just reflect on what level am I at and why, and what do I need in order to move up to the next level and beyond. Because... I go up and down it. So for example, I mentioned earlier about, you know, the isolation alone and the loneliness of, you know, running your own business or working a lot by yourself and, you know you could be a leader and that can be very isolating and lonely is that if I'm feeling very isolated and lonely, that's me not meeting the middle level, which is the belonging level. the need for that social interaction, the need to be around and talk to other people. mean, if I'm gonna be selfish, really selfish Lisa, one of the reasons that I wanted to do this with you is so we could have awesome conversations. I don't really care less if anyone listens to it, to be honest with you. But, you know, of course I do. But, I'm sorry, everyone, not sorry. But no, that's one of the reasons, because that helps me move up through the levels. So, yeah, and so I have things that ping up on my phone every day to remind me of this stuff so I can try and keep it at peak fitness. Does it always work? No, but when I do it, it does work. So yeah, work out what your Gobstopper or chocolate bar is and what the ingredients are, put them in, what the flavour is, and then, and that's your motivation because it's about creating an environment where you're going to feel motivated. It's not about these extrinsic motivators. for an external reward or avoid an external punishment that is fundamentally flawed, the carrot and stick approach, it's a false manipulation. It will only get you so far. I mean, it will work in to a certain extent, but it's that intrinsic stuff, vision, purpose, values, where you are on that pyramid and working your way to the top of the pyramid. That's the stuff that absolutely works for me. Yeah, I hear you. I absolutely hear you. So what's next? So I think it might be a good place to do an LYL Ponder Point. And then I think we can, in our next episode, I think there's maybe a few other bits to unpick with this and see where it goes. What do reckon, Lisa? So do you wanna go first on your motivation LYL Ponder Point? So my challenge would just, or my invitation would be for listeners to ask themselves what is it that motivates them and then to ask themselves the five whys and see what they get to. absolutely. A million percent that, because it will not be what you think. If you think money motivates you, you are wrong. It is something else. So yeah, that's a really, really, really good one. What is my LYL podcast ponder point? I think my LYL podcast ponder point is for, yeah, why do you do what you do? And again, as deep as possible. How do you go about that? Where is that taking you in terms of the future place in time? And how does that impact your motivation? Because for me, it's that intrinsic stuff that's important, not the extrinsic stuff, because the extrinsic stuff will just literally suck the soul out of you in the end. Thank that would be, I think there might be a couple of ponder points there for me actually. But yeah, that would be my ponder points. So, wow, such an interesting subject, and actually far bigger than I imagined it would be. It's been an interesting chat. let's see what we can add to this in our next episode, which I'm really, really looking forward to. So there we go, everyone. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching on whatever channel you are listening and watching on. Don't forget to give us a like, a follow, subscribe, because this just helps us get out to more people and to share our awesomeness, hopefully, with more people. And we look forward to seeing you next time. See ya. And there we have it, the latest edition of the Living Your Learning podcast. Myself and Lisa really hope you enjoyed it. Now, please don't forget to give us a like, a follow or a subscribe on whichever channel you are watching and listening on. And don't forget to tune in to our next episode where we'll be deep diving into this whole thing called motivation even further. And we look forward to seeing you next time.