The Living Your Learning Podcast
Exploring all things leadership, learning and everything in between; The Living Your Learning Podcast is the place for top chats, awesome insights and a splash of inspiration that will light the way to awesome leaders, amazing teams and even a better you!
The Living Your Learning Podcast
The Special Guest Sessions | Sabrina O'Flaherty | Business, Learning and Everything In Between
Summary:
When business gets tough, what separates those who thrive from those who merely survive? In this illuminating conversation with Sabrina, a successful entrepreneur from New Zealand, we dive deep into the essence of resilience, authentic leadership, and maintaining your course through challenging times.
Sabrina highlights the importance of resilience as the cornerstone of entrepreneurial success and what truly resonates is her practical approach to weathering storms and the anxiety many business owners and leaders feel a lot of the time.
Particularly powerful is Sabrina's values-based approach to business, built around what she calls the "GOOD" framework, which aren't just pleasant-sounding ideals, but practical values and decision filters that guide her business daily.
Perhaps most importantly, the conversation reinforces that business is fundamentally about people and creating value through genuine connections, because through economic fluctuations and the tough times, it's this human element, that when it remains constant, will truly separate the successful ventures from the rest.
So, are you laying the right seeds consistently in your business? Where are you showing up and where should you be showing up that you're not?
Listen now for insights that will help you build a more resilient, values-driven business and organisation that can weather any storm.
Sabrina's Business Bio:
At Good Line NZ, we help busy business owners reclaim their time and get back to doing what they do best. Whether it’s expert executive assistance, streamlined board support, or stand-out creative content and branding, we deliver smart, scalable solutions that grow with your business.
Our New Zealand-based team of high-calibre assistants bring over a decade of experience supporting founders, CEOs, and leadership teams across industries. From inbox and calendar management to social media strategy, governance support, and marketing execution, at Good Line NZ, we step in as an extension of your team, without the overhead of hiring.
We’re known for our flexible packages, clear communication, and ability to get things done, beautifully and efficiently.
Let’s get the right support around you so you can move forward with clarity, confidence, and time to breathe.
Website link: https://www.goodlinevirtualassistants.co.nz/
LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabrinaoflaherty/
Get In Touch:
To chat about how we can help you, please do get in touch.
Craig's Email:
craig@livingyourlearning.com
hello everybody and welcome back to the living, your learning podcast and we have a really special guest. Well, all of our guests on the special guest sessions are really special, but our special guest today is particularly special because she is coming from get this everybody, so no pressure, special guest but is coming from the other side of the planet, new zealand. The ll podcast has literally gone global, so very, very excited to welcome Sabrina today from New Zealand. How are you, sabrina?
Sabrina:Good Kia ora. How are you?
Craig:I'm very well and so so happy to have you here. Obviously we've known each other for a good few years now. We have family ties. Is that fair to say?
Sabrina:Yes, yeah, pamela is my cousin. So, yes, I literally have known her all my life. So, yeah, full disclosure of the family tie.
Craig:And it's not that you're having special treatment because of that. The reason you are on the podcast today? Because, well, you are, and I do see what you're doing on LinkedIn. You are absolutely crushing it in New Zealand. Um, you have your own business, don't you? so do you just want to tell us a little bit about that
Sabrina:yeah, sure, um, so, um, so yeah, obviously I came over to New Zealand or about 20 odd years ago, um, and I've now been in business for 11 years. I have my own virtual assistant agency, so that's where we work with a lot of startup and scale up businesses when they are really under the pump and they're kind of just feeling the pressure. They can't manage everything themselves, and so I have a team that are throughout New Zealand and we literally go in and support those people through that kind of, as I said, startup scale up and in that growth phase Normally past growth phase they're normally employing people into certain roles, especially in in that admin sector. But we're there in that transition, um, and it's just amazing to kind of be part of that kind of the the economy here in New Zealand and and also the different culture that's here. Um, so, yeah, so that's what I do over here 11 years.
Sabrina:I can't believe that's been so quickly and yeah, I've been following you guys for a while, so this is a real honor to be part of this.
Craig:Thank you, and just a quick one. You don't support people in the UK, do you? Because it sounds like I could do a bit of that as well.
Sabrina:Funnily enough, a lot of our team are actually expats, which is quite funny, and we have actually in the past and we've actually got some connections in the UK. So in the past and we've actually got some connections in the UK. So what works really well for us in that regard is obviously, while you guys are sleeping, we are working. So it's worked really well for some organizations where they literally wake up in the morning and a lot of their actual admin and inbox and kind of tasks is already completed and they can literally start the day with all of knowing that all of that was happening while they were asleep. So it works really well with the time difference actually, for for us being in New Zealand and we have a very similar work ethic that's amazing so yeah, so that's worked really well maybe we should talk offline, because I could definitely do with a bit more absolutely
Craig:that sounds amazing, okay, so I know there's a few things that you want to chat about, but I've got a few questions for you as well, which I'd really love to get your thoughts on. So all of our special guests that come on the special guest sessions I always ask them one question to start things off. So this is called the Living, your Learning Podcast, and I would just love to know and I know I'm putting you on the spot a little bit here because you did not know I was going to ask- this but the phrase living your learning.
Craig:What does that mean to you?
Sabrina:I was just literally thinking, quite a few things kind of come up, I mean, from obviously running a business perspective. Trust and loyalty has definitely kind of come through just when you're thinking about that kind of question, but also, as we kind of discussed a little bit about that kind of resilience piece. So for me it's really important to kind of just keep going and really trust yourself and just kind of, yeah, just back yourself. And I suppose for me that kind of living, your learning, is definitely around that kind of piece for me. There are hard, hard times in business we've all had it where we just want to kind of like throw the towel in and just be like, why are we doing this?
Sabrina:let's just go get a job. But for me just having that, yeah, just having that push through and that resilient piece and trust in yourself it has just been has really been quite huge for me and and just the growth of the organization um has has really kind of benefited for me having that and practicing it, I guess.
Craig:Brilliant. So has resilience been your biggest piece of learning since you've been in business yourself?
Sabrina:100%. I mean there's times when you know challenges come at you and they come at you when you're at your highest point in business and they come at you when you're in your lowest point in business and they come at you when you're in your lowest point of business and I think it's just having that resilience to, as I said, to kind of keep moving forward. You know the last I would say. You know 8 to 12 months for a lot of people has been really hard, especially here in New Zealand. I'm sure you felt it in the UK as well, and so, like, the economy's not been great and there's been a lot of businesses that, unfortunately, have had to close their doors. So I'm very fortunate that you know the service that we offer is still needed and that people are still investing in that area of their business. But it's just that, just that absolute tenacity of going. I'm not going to give up this. This is a service that people want, regardless of what you're giving them or the product. And just really pushing through and just trusting the processes that you've put in place, Trust the reason of why you started business in the first place, and just kind of yeah, just yeah, just really backing yourself is the only way I can kind of describe it really.
Craig:Yeah, I could not agree more with with that. So I've been in business eight years and I would say, yeah, the resilience thing is so important. And the other thing you, you, you reminded me of as well, um, which is about, you know, just keep moving forward, is I don't know if you've seen the film rocky balboa, so it's rocky six. Don't you've seen any of the Rocky films?
Sabrina:They did six of them.
Craig:Yeah, and 6 is a belter, but anyway, he's having a conversation with his grown-up son and his grown-up son is saying you shouldn't come out of retirement, you shouldn't be doing this, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm probably going to embarrass myself now because I'm probably going to try and do the quote but he said let me tell you something you already know the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody is going to hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get here and keep moving forward, how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done.
Sabrina:Love. That Isn't it amazing.
Craig:I did it so well, I did the whole thing.
Sabrina:It's like you rehearsed it. But you didn't.
Craig:It's like I'm Rocky. But do you know what? I often, I have that video clip saved on my phone and in those really, really tough times I go to that quote, I go to that video Because it is that's how you keep going. It's by getting up and going again and trying something different and going again, and if that doesn't work, going again. I mean, like you, I can't count the amount of plans I've written and ripped up and rewritten
Sabrina:100% like and there's always reiterations and I'm like I'm really thankful and very kind of fortunate that I've got quite a good kind of mentorship around me.
Sabrina:So I have like a business coach and I have someone that obviously is guiding me in that leadership piece, which is very similar to what you guys do over here in New Zealand. And there's always that element of going just because it failed once doesn't mean it's going to fail again. You just need to rework it. It might not have been the right time, it might not have been the right platform, it might not have been the right message, you know. So there's that element of kind of, you know, just understanding that natural growth, I suppose, and it normally is like iteration number 24 that actually does actually hit home. You know, you've just got to trial stuff.
Sabrina:Um, and it's quite funny, one of the quotes when you were saying about obviously uh, rocky, one of my kind of um quotes that I always go back to is there's a um, there's a round table of actors and it's tom hanks and he's literally going this too shall pass. He's like do you think you know it all and you've got everything in control? This too shall pass. You're really struggling and you feel like you can't keep moving. This too shall pass, and I just that, for me, has definitely been a absolute statement and quote that I kind of refer back to. And yeah, for me, business is like a kind of a wave it's going to go out and it's going to ebb and flow and it's going to come back again. It's a natural progression and it's just understanding that.
Sabrina:And that's where I think business owners itself and it's something that we try to do with a lot of businesses that we deal with is really just looking at your metrics as well and just going okay, what is the seasonality of your business and unfortunately or fortunately, what you did this time last year ain't going to work this year because things have changed, the economy is changing and so it's understanding those metrics but also having the fluidity to be able to ebb and flow with what's actually happening out there for you. You know what are your customers seeing, what are they wanting, have their pains changed? That you're answering and just kind of flowing with that. So I think again that kind of comes back to that resilient piece, but also trusting your gut and, as you say, just kind of understanding that we're all going through it and you're not on your own and hopefully you have great mentors around you to kind of support that.
Craig:Amen to everything you just said there. Literally, Sabrina. Absolute gold, just gold. I mean, what amazing advice. And do you know what, as you're saying that I'm actually applying it to my own business and I'm applying it to my clients' businesses, and it's just so, so true, absolute gold. That was, yeah, just amazing, do you know? What I'd really love to know is why did you start your business?
Sabrina:It literally was, by chance, actually A very good friend of mine over here. He was a chef and amazing at what he did like such an amazing chef boy was he awful at admin like just couldn't, couldn't put an invoice together for the life of him and just um. And I just saw that all of my background has come from um, marketing and and and just basically being that kind of support person. I've worked in a lot of advertising agencies and I just was like, hey, you know, you need to get your brand on point to start with. So that's how I started helping him.
Sabrina:I was extremely heavily pregnant with my first child and so I literally was like, look, I'm not working at the moment, let me help you.
Sabrina:And then I just saw this absolute need for those people that are growing a business and they are amazing at what they do, and they probably didn't start a business to be up at nine o'clock at night doing admin and emails. They started it to go and do what they love doing and what they're passionate about, and so that's kind of how that seed was grown really. So I really started working with him. I was with him for like six, oh six, seven years and it was just an amazing experience to kind of grow with him in that and then as I started networking and meeting more businesses that were in that space, then, yeah, the business just kind of took off in that natural, organic way really and then obviously brought the team in as those skill sets were needed Because, like most businesses, you get to a stage where you're going, okay, I'm at capacity but I'm now having to say no, and the sales are coming in. I don't want to do that. So how can I extend this? Let's get some more people in that are like-minded and have the same values as me and kind of grow that way. So yeah, that's how the business originally started um and um. Yeah, we just kind of kept growing from there.
Craig:what do you love about what you do?
Sabrina:I'm definitely a people, person um, and I love being able to....
Sabrina:Must run in family mustn't??
Sabrina:and I love the ability to be able to hold space for businesses to grow and to connect, and so that that for me was a real kind of driving passion kind of point in that, as a sideline outside of, obviously, of the agency that I've got, I do also have Business Collective, which is a networking business, and so that's where again, I'm facilitating like those networking sessions and meeting a whole bunch of like that SME kind of startup scale up businesses and so, yeah, for me it was really going I've got skills that other businesses need, let's go help them.
Sabrina:And for me it was kind of a little bit of a pay it forward and if we all help each other out, then we're all going to kind of, you know, rise to the top kind of situation. So that was the kind of yeah, I suppose the rationale behind doing it, as well as having the flexibility, like I really want to be able to support mostly mums who are part of my team that want that work-life balance and want to be there for their families and children but also don't want to not use the amazing skill sets that they've got. So that was another angle for me of why the business started.
Craig:Lovely. I absolutely love that. What are your core values for your business, so what really sets you apart, what determines how you go about things in your business? Because I think values are really, really important for any business.
Sabrina:Yeah, 100%. And look, they've definitely changed over time and I think that if you have a business, it's good to kind of evolve with some of your values, because they will kind of change. I think the bottom line for us is that we are very loyal. Loyalty is a massive value for me personally, but also within the business, really authenticity, like real clear communication, being really open to you know what we're doing and obviously, how we're kind of performing, I guess, and how we're helping people.
Sabrina:And outside of that, like I'm just trying to like, we have this thing which is which is good, so we're called Good Line and so the good pretty much stands for like genuine. And then we've got open communication and then we've got opportunities. So we're really open to you know new opportunities that are coming our way For our sector. Ai is massive and I'm definitely trying to be a bit of a trailblazer in doing that here in New Zealand. And then the D is really kind of like determination and that kind of dedication to the clients that we're working with. So that's the kind of structure that we kind of work with them.
Craig:Just run me through those four again.
Sabrina:You're say that I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. So g was genuine. So we like to be like genuine and with what we do.
Sabrina:Oh well, first o is open communication yeah so we're very transparent with what we provide to clients and with our billing, etc. Uh, the other o was opportunities, so we always look to opportunities for growth. And then the D was determination and also dedication. So we're very dedicated to the businesses that we are aligning with. We're slightly different from a. You know here's a list of tasks. Go do it clock off. We are more intrinsically involved in all the businesses that we work with. We're actually really part of their team and part of their growth journey, and so we're really invested in that.
Craig:That's amazing. I actually do a lot of values work with businesses and organizations, so helping them to identify and create and kind of bring to life their organizational business values, and I have to say that is one of the best sets of values I've ever seen. Sabrina.
Sabrina:Oh, that's very sweet of you.
Craig:No, seriously, and I think anyone listening particularly you know business leaders, business owners out there, you know that thing around being genuine and authentic, that open communication. I personally think that communication is the key to everything that you do, everything that opportunity for growth, a dedication and determination wow, if that's not a blueprint for running a business, for being a business, I don't know what is. That is seriously good. I love it.
Sabrina:I don't want to know what to say. I'm speechless. It's funny, isn't it? Because when you're in business, you're so used to especially as a person that's got a team in that leadership, you're so used to giving praise and giving that element to other people that when it starts coming back your way, you're a bit like oh thanks.
Craig:Honestly I'm sorry to embarrass you, but but honestly, wow, they are so, so powerful. Do you have an absolute non-negotiable in terms of a value or a behavior within your business?
Sabrina:I think thing for me through the journey and, trust me, I've been burnt, you know, and got my hand bit a few times, but I've learned through that. I'm really. My ear is now tuned in to hearing those elements where I, you know, I don't think people are going to be with us as a team for the long run. If it's like, oh, we just want a short-term fix, I'm like I'm sorry we're not your people. I'm like I'm sorry we're not your people.
Sabrina:Yeah, no, we, we want you to grow with us, we want you to you know, you know, have all of that. From a client perspective, I think it's probably just that kind of honesty piece. It's quite amazing how we will go into a business and we'll start opening Pandora's box and discovering a whole bunch of stuff that we didn't know was there. And just that real again, that authentic kind of element of it. It's like, okay, you weren't genuine when you said this was where you were at, or you're not being genuine in business. That's a real kind of bottom line for me, like if you're not following best practices and you're not being good with your team and you're not being honest with your clients and we're seeing that we're going to be probably exiting stage left, because that's not how business should really be run, especially in this kind of current climate and in this day and age as well yeah, I couldn't agree more with that.
Craig:And again, just looking over these words that you've, you've described, you know, being genuine, open communication, really looking for those opportunities and that growth, that dedication, dedication and determination, the trust, loyalty and honesty, not only is it a blueprint for business and having a successful business, but it's also a blueprint for having a great team, whatever that looks like, whether it's in business, whether it's a community team or a sports team or or whatever. But but the other thing that's coming to mind, and another thing that we talk about a lot on the podcast, is leadership as well. I mean, I don't know if you realize what you've put together here, but it's literally blowing my mind, sabrina. It's literally. If you were to describe what it takes to have a great team or a great business, or what leadership is really all about, all of these words would be, in that mix, without a shadow of a doubt, absolutely phenomenal, really, really great. So for all, well, whoever's listening business owners, leaders, whoever yeah, really think about what, what your values are, what your non-negotiables are, what it means to be a team, what it means to serve your clients, what it means to be a business or what it means to be a leader, because it's really important that you do the right things in the right way. Because, going back to your point on resilience, sabrina, that's the stuff that gets you through, isn't it? Doing the right things consistently.
Craig:And you might think, do you know what, this is not working, so I've got to take a shortcut, or I've got to do something I wouldn't want to normally do or like to do. But no, because it will jump up and bite you on the backside in a massive way. I believe in the universe, it'll come back around and it really will. But it's doing this real good stuff consistently. And, as you said before we came on which I wrote down as well laying those seeds. You might not see it now, but you will in six months, you will in a year.
Craig:In fact, I've coached people who, who have been, you know, maybe struggling, you know, you know results wise or or numbers wise, and we've talked about okay, what are the what, the what, the non-negotiables, what are the great things you absolutely have to do consistently. I need to do this, have to do consistently, I need to do this, I need to do this, I need to do this. Basically, all the stuff we've been talking about and putting that work in and if it's not working, okay, adapting, tweaking, changing it up, going again and slowly but surely doing it. And they're saying, craig, it's not working, I'm going to give up.
Craig:No, keep going, keep going, pick yourself up, go again, go again, go again. And those very same people, six months a year later, are absolutely smashing it.
Sabrina:And it's really funny because we saw it and I'm sure you guys did as well, like during COVID. Can we even say that word now without everyone having a flinch attack?
Craig:It's like a bad dream, wasn't it?
Sabrina:During COVID we definitely saw here in New Zealand that the, the businesses that were kind of sitting on the fence yeah, not really quite sure what was going to happen, um, and kind of waiting for everyone else to kind of make a move they, they didn't really survive, the ones that were going. You know what? It's another day, keep going and just adapting. Um, the p word that we all hated hearing, which was pivoting you know, over that time.
Sabrina:If I heard that one word one more time, I think I was going to probably just just go nuts. But you know, but it was true, it was all those people that just kept it going, like kept that pedal, you know, down and the accelerator just going in the in the direction that they were wanting to go. As I just said, literally the last eight to 10 months has been not great for a lot of businesses and it's definitely been hitting home in New Zealand. But I really have seen from myself personally I laid so many seeds late last year or mid to late last year and I just was like I don't know when this is going to come to fruition, but I'm just going to keep doing it and I'm now seeing it come to fruition.
Sabrina:And conferences that I went to, like I really deep dived into the AI space like kind of early to mid, kind of late last year and I was networking with a whole different, obviously you know people and group of people and organizations and stuff and all of that learning that I've now gathered over that time has come to fruition.
Sabrina:Like I'm literally just about next week to do a whole entire kind of webinar about how EAs are using AI and so all of that learning that I gathered and was kind of like you know was just kind of processing, has now come through because I was networking within those areas. So look you just, although it is hard to kind of just keep going, it is hard to kind of get yourself out there, but, honestly, the results just a tenfold if you just keep moving forward and you just trust your gut and trust your processes and trust your business model that you have, and it will come through and it will start shining again for you. Like even now in New Zealand we're definitely seeing a lot of optimism back in the market.
Craig:Well, that's good.
Sabrina:Maybe not around some people that are trading with the US, but we won't mention that at the moment. But you know there's a little bit of what's going to happen. But in general in business, like you know, we're having our OCR is kind of dropping. You know, like there's all these elements that are assisting that kind of additional cash flow happening within the market, which is definitely making people go out and look at things differently and get those services that they need. And you know, yeah, invest in areas where they need to for their business and personally, which is great to see.
Craig:Yeah, no, a million percent, because you know, and it's actually very similar what is for me anyway, here in the uk greeners yeah and and all and all a little bit weird, to be honest with you, and you know there's all the stuff that's going on in the um on at the moment and I'll be a liar if I said that stuff doesn't worry me, it doesn't scare me. But the one thing that that I've realized, even just speaking to you, but I've really started to think about over these past few days, is that that stuff ain't gonna go away. I can't change it.
Craig:What I can do and what I can control is my response to it. What I can do is tweak my plans. What I can control is my response to it. What I can do is tweak my plans. What I can do is try something different. What I can do is not be afraid to put myself out there and go hey, I've got this thing as well, come and try it out, come and look at it and you know what? It might not work, people might not want it, but then I'll tweak it and I'll try again and I'll try something else. Tweak it and I'll try again and I'll try something else. The bit we can control is ourselves and how we respond, isn't it?
Sabrina:100%? And it's quite funny, like I was, while you were saying that, I was just thinking about my, my little one. So my little one has ADHD and he was diagnosed a good few years ago now. So we are very much into that journey and the one thing that we're constantly teaching him is is how he can respond to certain situations, and it is so very true in business as well. So how you present yourself and how you respond to good and bad situations in your life and in business is all to do with kind of your input or output, depending on how that kind of goes. So, yeah, I couldn't agree more put or how put, depending on how that kind of goes. So, yeah, I couldn't agree with more.
Sabrina:Like it really is, you as the business owner and you as the leader of a team, you're the one that the buck stops with and you're the one that also is where the energy comes from and the values come from and the growth comes from or the learnings come from. You know you just have to kind of. Your reaction has such a ripple effect on your team, so you have to be really aware of that. I had a great, sorry, excuse me. I had a great kind of semi-business tip from someone in my networking group where he was just like keep your own excuse my french shit in your own backpack, like people don't need to, don't need to know everything, but at the same time just don't tell them everything because it's going to have such a ripple effect through your team. So there's elements like that as well.
Craig:Yeah, but on the other side of the coin, when the scary stuff is happening and you're all up against it as a leader whether that's a team, a business or whatever that's when the leader needs to stand up and go right, this is happening. We can't ignore it. And do you know what? I'm worried about it? Right, what can we do? What ideas have we got? How are we going to move forward? How are we going to navigate around this? That's what we need right now. We need to find a way around it, because that craziness, that's what we need. That's what we need right now. We need to find a way around it, because that craziness that's going on in the world at the moment, I don't think is going to be fixed anytime soon.
Craig:But, as you said, it's like waves, isn't it? And you've just got to learn to ride the wave. When you're at the top of the wave and it's all going good, you know you still got to be doing the right things, but it's what you do when you're at the bottom of the wave and what you do to to come back up on the other side. For me, that makes a difference. And then, when you add in your values and your non-negotiables, um, like the ones you describe. That's what starts to set you apart, isn't it? And that's what really drives you forward. You know where you're heading, your, your vision, um, and you've got these values, these behaviors that are going to help get you there, um, and it's, and it's confronting things and going, right, okay, this is happening, what can we do about it? You know who's got an idea. So, yeah, that stuff is super important for me, super, super important.
Sabrina:Yeah 100% and look, there's going to be times in business and I've definitely had it. Look, I, I've had a. I think the team at one stage, when we were in a massive growth phase, got up to like 20. We're, you know, we're down now to eight, but that's for a very strategic reason, but also due to the economy. And look, it's ebbed and flowed. Ebbed and flowed.
Sabrina:It's hard when you're going through that because you're like am I failing because I've now got less team, or what's going on? Or what have I done wrong? And there's so many, unfortunately, we have a lot, and it's definitely here again in New Zealand. I'm sure it's the same in the UK, where a lot of leaders will definitely have that kind of imposter syndrome coming through. You know, should I be doing this? Am I the right person to do this? Do I know enough? Are people going to want to listen to me? And look, I've had that myself as well through different phases of my kind of business growth.
Sabrina:But, um, but yeah, it definitely is a. It's a moving beast and I think we've got to move with it as the business owners as well as the leaders and the team, and just give that support and then we can see, with what's happening, you know on in a different country, how sometimes bad leadership can have such a massive ripple effect, and we're seeing that play out right now. You know where people don't really know what's going on and they haven't been informed of what's happening and what's happening over here and you know, so it's. Yeah, I think it's really important to to just be as a leader, be really kind to yourself and just trust your gut and and and not beat yourself up if if it's not going as you planned, because, as we said earlier, reiteration 24 might be the one that hits the mark.
Craig:So, and if anyone wants a reason why bad leadership is just wrong and shouldn't happen, just look at what's happening in the world. Everyone that's it.
Sabrina:Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Craig:You mentioned something really interesting there imposter syndrome, and it's something I talk, talk a lot about with, with, with various people I work with. Do you have any? I have any and I've definitely, you know, suffered from it stuff, still suffer from it, thinking literally I have no clue what's going on right now. You know, yeah, and all of that stuff. So do you have any top tips for people, whether they're a leader, a business owner, whatever, or for when they have imposter syndrome?
Sabrina:oh, I don't know if I necessarily have, uh, top tips, because it's definitely more of, I think, a personal experience that you go through and I think a lot of our imposter syndrome probably comes from elements of you know, depending on how you grew up, what your parents were like, what environment you kind of grew up in. I think for me and again that's where I'm very lucky that my business mentors kind of helped me through that and what she always says is okay, show me the evidence. Show me the evidence that you're not do you know what I mean Like? Show me the evidence that you're not the expert in your field. Show me the evidence where this isn't working. Show me the evidence where what you're putting out there is not needed by the client. Show me the evidence that you're really bad at what you're doing or you know that people hate what you're doing.
Sabrina:If that's what you're thinking, and that's always been we were literally on a call with her today and she was going okay, I'm in a court of law, so show me the evidence, guys. And we all just kind of went yeah, okay, you know. And it's such a great question, and when you start trying to find the evidence of why you either think that you are not good enough, or why you shouldn't be launching that product in market, or that your customers aren't wanting what you're needing, or whatever it is that you're you're looking through. Go and find the evidence of why that's. You know why that is the case and I guarantee you won't find it and you'll find the opposite and I think that's definitely what.
Sabrina:I've done is I've gone back and gone. Okay, sam, show me the evidence like where is it?
Craig:that's an amazing question. So there's a few things there for me. I think. You know, like you, I have a coach as well. I have various mentors who I call upon every now and again to pick their brains, but they don't know they're my mentors, but they definitely are. So I would say to everyone you know, get yourself a coach, have some really great mentors around you who you can talk to. And yeah, that is such a great question because we all, we all tell stories, don't we? You know, when we're feeling under threat, it's the natural fight, flight, freeze response, isn't it? And then we'll add stories to it to justify why we're feeling the way we're feeling. And and all of a sudden, we're creating this narrative that just isn't real. So that's a great question.
Craig:The one thing I do as well to add to that and I speak about this a lot, but it's my favorite, favorite technique and I share it a lot with the people I work with it's called an after action review and it's based on well, originally it was based on three questions, but I've added a fourth, and the after action review is just about asking these four questions what is working well, because there'll always be something. What isn't working well. What can you do differently or better and what do you need to be able to do it differently or better? And it's phenomenal because it's very objective. You take away the subjectivity, it's just based on pure evidence, pure facts, and then it helps you come up with a really good action. And if you turn that into a smart action to some specific, measurable, time bound, et cetera, you can then put something in place to do something about it. And if anyone wants to know more about this, I wrote a blog about how barbecue get this Sabrina how barbecue can make you a better leader, and it's all about how to use the after action review. And it's a true story.
Craig:I won't give it all away, but a couple of New Year's Eves ago, I barbecued a brisket like 18 hours, this thing like huge investment, and it was a complete and utter disaster. And my darling wife Pam, your cousin, in her wisdom and it really annoys me because she doesn't even know she's doing it, that's why she's so brilliant she said so, what did go well? And I said, oh, the first bit. What didn't go well? Oh, that bit. What could you do differently? Then that bit. And then it it like oh my god, after action review, gave her a big kiss love. You ran off, started writing things down and I was like, oh, sometimes she really annoys me because she doesn't even know she's doing it. And then, and then, to cut a long story short I did it again a couple of weeks late and it was absolutely perfect. But but I thought I was the worst barbecuer in the world and that I was never going to barbecue ever again and it's my favorite thing to do.
Craig:Um, but you can apply that lesson to so many different things, whether it's running a business, whether it's a project and whether it's being a leader, whether it's, you know how you are as a team after every significant thing you do, or if something's not going quite well, you know, know. Do an after action review. Okay. So what is going well, what isn't going well, what can we do differently and what do we need to be able to do that? And also, where is the evidence? And I promise you we'll come up with some great solutions.
Sabrina:Yeah, 100%. And look from, one thing that I've started to do is definitely journaling as well, so that's definitely.
Craig:How's oh so many people do telling me that yeah, it's, it's really.
Sabrina:I was really kind of like really it's a bit kind of is this gonna work? It's a bit kind of woo, woo, I'm not on board, I'm a bit skeptic in that kind of respect, but I just started doing it and it's more of a uh and again, it's one thing that we, that we do on a kind of weekly basis, I do kind of with my mentor, is just riding down your wings and it's really amazing how you, just because the weeks are so busy and you are so busy, you're doing, you know, you're making, you know, 50,000 decisions during the day. You're solving problems, you're fighting fires, you're causing fires potentially, but you know it's when you actually stop, like and you don't have to do it like every week. It's one of those things that I probably do like every two weeks where it's literally a case of going okay, what were the over the last you know fortnight, what were my wins, that I actually got across the line and that's been amazing, just to stop and reflect.
Sabrina:And I think it's unfortunate because of the we're always accessible on our phones and, you know, we're always available to people and I think that that that unfortunately, again because of COVID, has made it, you know, a little bit more of a pressure for business owners and leaders to not switch off, and I think that's so important and it's so important for your mental health as well as your business growth.
Sabrina:You cannot run on an empty tank, but you also can't run with no kind of you know kind of energy or excitement. So when you sit there and you actually write down your, your wins however many they are there might be three, there might be 10, you know, it's just such a great reflection piece to go. I actually did achieve something over the last two weeks Like this is amazing, and so I think that that's that's really important as well Just to kind of, yeah, just give some time for yourself as a leader and as a business owner, give your time, that space to kind of reflect and also just really celebrate your wins, because I don't think enough people do that no, a million percent, and I'm one of them.
Craig:I couldn't agree more with that. I couldn't agree more, and I think probably nearly every single episode we've had so far, self-reflection has come up, and that's that's not coincidence. It's so important everyone to to give yourself that time for that reflection and, yeah, those wins. That's really important because no doubt, like me, sabrina, you can, because you're so busy in the day-to-day. You're just one thing to the next, aren't you? And then you kind of get bogged down. It starts feeling heavy and you kinda start wondering, oh my God, why am I doing this? Is it all worth it? And I think it's really important to remember those wins. In fact, this happened to me only last week or the week before, I can't remember, but it was kind of a period of time where you're just going from one thing to the next. You're really busy and it's kind of, you know, feeling kind of heavy.
Craig:And I went and delivered a workshop for a client and they very kindly sent me some feedback. Even thinking about it now, it kind of it fills me up with so much gratitude. And there was like 16 people on this, this, this, this workshop that I delivered, and, um, every single one of the well, most of them, um, but but had written um a piece of feedback for me and, just like you earlier, when I was complimenting, complimenting you on your, your values, and it was really hard to read and I showed Pam, she went oh my God, that's amazing. She went. See, you are good at what you do. You do make a difference.
Sabrina:You do know what you're talking about.
Craig:Yeah, and sometimes we just need to remember that because you know I'm not. You know I need to earn a living, but I'm not in this to earn millions of pounds. I'm honestly doing this to make a difference to people and to create awesome leaders, amazing teams and great learning professionals and great organizations. That's what I want to help create, because I think that will help create a better world. And it's sometimes really nice just to hear that, a it's appreciated, but, b you are on the right track. And, yeah, being able to just stop and give yourself that and it's not being egotistical and big headed just to give yourself that little pat on the back and go. Yeah, do you know what I'm doing all right at the minute.
Sabrina:Yeah, and that's why, again, I think, when you were saying like it's really important for you to have really strong supportive people around you, be that as a business mentor, as your partner, whoever that person is because again, when you're the the, the buck stops with you as the business owner. You've got no one above you, like, you've got no one to be accountable to. To a degree, it's all with you and that's a lot for for, for um, you know some organizations and some people, so to have those people to go okay. So I've been thinking about this where I'm feeling like this and and then again you can just feed off them and I think it's really important to have people to really kind of support you through that.
Sabrina:Because you, I don't think you should ever do business alone, don't think it's healthy, for your mindset it's not. But also for me, you can't grow like you. You need other people to you know, brainstorm those ideas with you know, are you? And that's why I love like what I do with the business collective. It's literally like we have like 21 people in one of our groups and we're literally sitting around and going how's stuff with you? What are you feeling like? What have you noticed?
Sabrina:over the last couple of weeks and just have those honest conversations and look if there's anything business networking here is is quite huge, if there's anything local where you can do that as a business. To just hold space for people to come together, I think is really important. And people, especially when you're in business or you're a solopreneur, you're normally working from home on your own so you don't have that human connection as well. So I think that's really important to get out there and go and meet some people. Yeah, and hear from others in industry sectors.
Craig:Yeah, do you know what? And I absolutely hate networking, Sabrina. I hate it. In fact, I don't do it a lot anymore. In the early years of my business I did it a lot and I've been to some shocking networking events. Yeah, Do you know the kind that are either? Like a six in the morning with a breakfast. People just just just walk up to you and give you their business card and then talk all about themselves try to yeah, those kind of things, and there's a lot of those here in the uk.
Craig:But you know what, honestly, I've never, I've never come across. I don't think I've come across or heard of one quite like that. If that was in the UK I'd be there all the time, yeah, like yeah, maybe I should come over and like set one up but um it's all about.
Sabrina:For me, it's all about community over competition, so it's really about kind of getting together with local and it's all about local people.
Sabrina:So we have, like I live in a town called Te Atatu or like Te Atatu Peninsula it's actually a suburb over here and so we have a Te Atatu business collective.
Sabrina:I then travel up to a coastal town called Oriwa, which is just kind of north of Auckland, with my son because he does a forest school every Thursday. I'll literally be doing that tomorrow and so we've got one there and it literally is us sitting around we're doing you know there's some structure to it where we're doing a very quick, you know, 60-second introduction and that's more, because the more you hear about what people are doing, the more it cements it in your mind and not, you know, pushy over the referrals. Here's your business card. You know, make sure we connect. It's more just about let's get together as a collective. We're all business owners. What are we seeing out there in the market? Let's have an honest discussion around that and just really kind of connect and grow. And because it's so natural and organic, the referrals will naturally come and like even now like I've literally just launched a new one.
Sabrina:only you know, like literally a month ago, and even now those collaborations are happening because it's such a natural non-pressure, you know hot pot kind of environment. It's all just about getting together. Yeah, you should definitely set one up under your own brand over there. I can guarantee you....
Craig:What a lot breath of fresh air. Wow, yeah, yeah, I would definitely go to that. I would definitely. That sounds amazing. Where do you you know going, just quickly going back to the whole, giving yourself a minute to celebrate the wins reflection? Where do you sit with the whole you know gratitude thing and making sure you bring in that gratitude piece? Where do you sit with that?
Sabrina:it's interesting. It's one of the. I've definitely struggled with it because again, it has that element of not necessarily, like you know, I should be sitting and be very grateful for all I, for all I have, like it just feels a little bit kind of a little bit false and a little bit pushed for me. But at the same time, for me it's kind of more of a case of I'm just. I think I'm more tend to the thankfulness than the gratitude, so I normally use that word where I'm very, I'm very thankful that I'm able to support these businesses. I'm very thankful that I've been given a platform that I can obviously, you know, host and do these kind of, you know, business networking events. I'm very thankful to be able to have the amazing team that I've got, um, and for their trust and loyalty in me as well and and what we're doing. So I think I tend to more of that word than the gratitude word. I don't know why?
Craig:I agree with you actually because I'm just thinking I don't do it nearly enough, but when I do do it it really helps me. It helps, it just helps shift my mindset. But thinking about it when I do it, and it's very simple for me, it's just a few moments where you know I'm as present and as deeply present as I can possibly be if I actually think about it. That's exactly the same word I use thankful. I don't use grateful at all, gratitude at all. It's thankful because do you know what? I'm never gonna do anything other than what I do ever again, and I will probably do it to my dying day.
Craig:I, I want to help leaders and teams and organizations and fellow trainers and coaches and facilitators just to be better for themselves, for the, the people they serve. It's who I am, it's what I am, and I think you know sometimes, remembering that and to be really thankful and I million percent agree with that word for that I think is really really important, because running a business, running a team, being a leader, is tough, it so hard, it really is hard. And again, I think, just that self-reflection piece, sometimes it's important to just remember why you started in the first place and be, and to be thankful for being able to do it. I think it's really important.
Sabrina:yeah 100% and look and that's what's going to get you through those hard times is, you know, when you, when you are getting to a point where you've gone, okay, things haven't gone the way that I planned, things aren't. You know, the business isn't where I want it to be at this stage. I've had some, you know, staffing issues, or client issues, or servicing, you know, issues, whatever it is that you're kind of struggling with, I think, just to kind of stop and go right. Why was I doing this in the first place? What was my passion behind this? And you know, it's the old thing of everyone talks about like what's your why?
Sabrina:I think I look more of a you know what was the driver behind you launching this? Why did this business come into fruition? Why was the need that you saw that you could fill? What was the skill set that you could provide to help others? You know, because that's what we're all really in a business of is providing either a product or a service that's going to help other people. And so you know why.
Sabrina:Why were you doing that in the first place? And just really kind of going back to those basics, you know, and not over complicating it. And I think that the moment you start breaking that down, then that's a real benefit and it definitely has gotten me through the difficult times and the hard times. And look, yes, you need processes in your business and you need good terms and you need all that gorgeous contracts and all that kind of stuff. But that's all the fluff. For me, that's more of. Your passion behind it is what's going to drive it forward,, I can't agree of, uh, you know your passion behind it is what's going to drive it forward. Um, and it's also going to make people want to work with you as well, both clients
Craig:and your team and team members you've just reminded me of something else as well, Sabrina, , particularly since I've been in business, I fundamentally fundamentally believe that, whether you're a business owner or working for a company, or a leader or part of a team or whatever is that we are all in the business of people and, because of that, everything we do has to be about people and for the good of other people. Where do you sit with that?
Sabrina:and look, that's what my whole entire business is really kind of revolving around, where people, as in my team, who have amazing skill set that can offer that to people ie other businesses that don't have that in order for them to be able to promote their product or service to their people. So it's this constant kind of it's like a pebble in a pond, you know it just keeps going. And look as humans. You know, again, covid showed that we need that connection. We're here for each other and although, yes, there's some pretty horrible things happening in the world, the underlining elements there's still that connection love, compassion, passion for people to be doing better still out there. And I think that's where we see humans really thriving and that's where you can see some amazing people doing some amazing work.
Sabrina:And to be a little part of that journey, however big or small, you know, that kind of businesses for me is just I'm very thankful. There it is again, I'm very thankful for that kind of opportunity to be able to help them and kind of give back. You know I've been very fortunate in my life, I've had a great upbringing help them and kind of give back. You know I've been very fortunate in my life. I've had a great upbringing. I've got amazing parents. You know I've had a you know, you know great education. I'm living on the other side of the world. You know I've managed to do that. You know great family here and so it's you know it's um, yeah, just very thankful to have all of that and be able to to go and help others
Craig:it's an honor, isn't it? absolutely it's an honor for me. It's an honor and a privilege and it'll be the biggest honor and the privilege of my life doing what I do. And, and just going back to the thing about people, yeah, I, I absolutely agree with you on that. But but I think what's going on in the world? There are some parts of the world and some elements within the world that are forgetting that, that we're all in the business of people and when you forget that, you get what we're experiencing, don't you, which is complete and it's just insane and, without being political, it's just insanity, it's nonsense, and we're seeing right before our very eyes is that when you don't make it all about people and for the good of people and you don't come together, instead you force things apart, what's going on in the world right now is what you end up with.
Sabrina:Yeah, and look, you started a business to obviously make money and anyone that says any different, you know they might be in a different organization. But yeah, yes, it's about people. But yes, you do obviously need to have that, that revenue coming in, otherwise you don't have a sustainable business.
Sabrina:But it shouldn't be all about the money, it should be about the benefit, the what are you giving to that person. And obviously at the moment we're seeing that it, as you say, it's not about the people, that is about the money, um, and and so that's where you can see that disconnect is happening and people are just going wait a minute. That's not right and I don't think us as people can even connect to that. I definitely can't. You know, if I meet anybody that is needing assistance, but you know it's just financially not possible, we will work a way round to be able to help them. You know, because it's all about, you can see the need, you can see where you can help and I think that's really important to kind of hold on to.
Craig:Yeah, , I couldn't agree more with that. I couldn't agree more. So what's your biggest challenge being a leader?
Sabrina:That's a good question. What's my biggest challenge.
Craig:It's what I do, Sabrina.
Sabrina:Yeah, I know I was going to say you're pretty good at what you do. What's my biggest challenge? I'm like I'm actually a little bit stumped. I'm kind of thinking what is my biggest challenge as a leader? I think it's just kind of making sure that I'm supporting the team without micromanaging. I'm definitely not a micromanager, I've had that done to me. It's just not nice. From a business perspective, I think the challenge is really at the moment just us getting through this economic downturn, um, and just obviously seeing and hopefully seeing you know, businesses kind of coming back to that thriving part. But yeah, from a leader, what's the challenge? Can I, can I send a postcard of answers on a postcard to that one?
Craig:you can and you know what. I almost asked it as a reflection, as as a rhetorical question, because I I would like all of our listeners and viewers to be able to think about that question what is your biggest challenge as a leader and how are you, I think for me, overcoming it, but still making sure you don't forget about the people you're serving, the people you're leading, your customers, your team, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah, you can, and I'd love to know your answer. So we always, we always, finish up the podcast with something called the Living, your Learning Podcast, ponder Point. So this is something that we give our listeners and viewers to go away and think about. You know, it could be a top tip, it could be a challenge, whatever. So, just based on what you do and what you believe in, or even maybe some of our discussions today, what would you like your LYL podcast ponder point to be? What are you going to leave our listeners and viewers with?
Sabrina:Well, you're really dropping me right in the heat, aren't you? What would be a good ponder point, I think, for me? I would ask people where are they showing up and where are they not showing up that they should be? That could both be with your team, but also with your clients and also as a business. So I definitely realized that I'd done the networking, I stopped doing the networking and I shouldn't have, and so I needed to show up again.
Sabrina:In that regard, one of my kind of plans for this year is about raising my voice, which is why I'm showing up more in different locations, like doing this with you and different kind of webinars and stuff. So, yeah, I would really kind of ask people like where are you showing up? Where it's working and it's kind of kind of going back to the questions that I guess you had and then, where are you showing up or where? Where should you be showing up? That you're not, but there could be an opportunity for you to kind of be part of um and, as I said, that could be with your business or with your team yeah, that's really good because you can put so many contexts on that, either as a leader, as a business owner, with your team, with your clients.
Craig:Yeah, that's great. I love that. That's an amazing ponder point, sabrina. I think my ponder point, based on what we talked about today, I might have a couple and I'm going to try and merge them. So I think you know, really think about your values, your non-negotiables and how you bring those to life. Because in everything that you do, because it really makes a difference, and you know, for me, those values, those non-negotiables, are almost decision filters. They're filters through which we make decisions about what we do and how we do it. So that would be part A of my ponder point. The part b of my ponder point is the stuff that you were talking about. You know, adapting, tweaking, trying again, getting up, dusting yourself down, going again, going again, those iterations of the plan. That's really powerful. And I think that's powerful for whoever you are, whether you're a leader, a business owner, whether you're a team, an organization. And particularly at the moment, that resilience thing is so, so important, because it will make the difference between those who stick around and those who don't. I think 100%.
Sabrina:Yeah, there's, and again, it's that whole this too shall pass, so don't beat yourself up If it's not working. It's that whole this too shall pass, so don't beat yourself up. If it's not working, it's okay. But at the same time, be aware that if you're on a high and it's going really, really well, just know that you might have a little bit of a downturn potentially, and it's not in a scary way, it's just. You know, it's that whole. You know, make hay while the sun shines, store it up for when it's not such a great period of your business. And yeah, just understand that business isn't linear. It is an absolute flow and a kind of a natural kind of progression as you go through it.
Craig:Yeah, and as long as you keep laying the seeds, whilst it might be a bit troughy, it will still be in an upward trend.
Sabrina:Yeah, 100%, yeah. Just keep that consistency up, both from a social media posting and your thought-provoking pieces, maybe on LinkedIn, but also with your clients' communication and your services that you're offering and with your team and all of that kind of stuff. Just keep being consistent and keep laying those seeds because, trust me, it does really come back and and it does come to fruition for you.
Craig:Wow, and on that amazing piece of advice,
Sabrina:how did that hour go past?
Sabrina:that was so quick
Craig:it's crazy, isn't it? I think we'll wrap things up there, so everyone listeners, viewers, whatever channel you're listening and viewing on um, we really hope you enjoyed that as much as myself and Sabrina did. Please give us a like, follow, subscribe and so we can get this conversation out to as many people as we possibly can. And yeah, just thank you again, sabrina, for being a special guest on our special guest sessions. Such great advice, such amazing tips, such authenticity as well Absolutely phenomenal. I really enjoyed that. So thank you so much for your time. We'll definitely get you on again soon.
Sabrina:I know absolutely. Thank you guys for making this space and holding this space for people to come and talk to you, because I think the more that we hear from others, the better we all are, but also for everything that you guys are doing, like, yes, I'm in New Zealand, but I've been a long time listener, first time caller Is that how it goes? Yeah, and so I see what all of you guys are doing, and what you're doing is amazing. So just keep up the amazing work.
Craig:It's my turn to be embarrassed now. Thank you, Sabrina, I really appreciate that, and everyone, thank you so much for listening and we'll see you again next time. See so much for listening and we'll see you again next time. See you later, everyone.
